[Bug 34380] Noatun Playlist Skinning and Integration

[sgehn at gmx.net]

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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34380     




------- Additional Comments From sgehn at gmx.net  2003-05-04 11:45 -------
Subject: Re:  Noatun Playlist Skinning and Integration

Moin,

On Sunday May 4 2003 02:51, Charles Samuels wrote:
> > (3) CPU consumption (and threfore skipping of songs under heavy load)
>
> This has absolutely nothing to do with CPU usage.  Just the IDE drivers
> having too much latency, and mpeglib not buffering input enough.  Linux

Any idea where the buffering takes place so I can alter it? cvs up kdebase 
kills my sound regularly if the file comes from the same hdd :)
> 2.4.20 seems to behave much better. SCSI on almost any kernel will behave
> much better (in fact, nearly impossible to skip).

Everybody vote for cheaper SCSI disks!

> I'm not the author of mpeglib, so bug someone else.

Wrong attitude, better immediately CC the ones who ARE its authors (I have no 
clue about mpeglib either).

> > In this post, I only focus on point (1) and specificly on skinning.
> > Unfortunately, I don't like Noatuns default layout and am using skins
> > therefore. However, if only the main application is skinned and the

What do you mean by default layout? Is there no GUI for Noatun with normal KDE 
UI that appeals you? If not, tell me why, I'm always willing to improve such 
things as that's one of the things I'm actually capable of (I couldn't 
improve a single thing about arts-related stuff though) ;)

> > playlist/equalizer not, it gives the impression that there are three
> > independent applications. Furthermore, the playlist and the equalizer

Why three? Main window + Playlist window = 2.

> > cannot be docked, so if you would like to move around the Noatun and make

KJöfol in CVS has a working Equalizer, you don't necessarily need that window 
with KJ, I just have to find a nice way to support the preamp slider (the one 
on the far left that affects volume, quite handy for LOUD recordings) as KJ 
did not have such a thing.

> > space for another application, you have to move three windows (Noatun,
> > the playlist and maybe the equalizer)!

I'll try and add dockmode to FlexPlaylist (based on splitplaylist but with 
lots of little configuration stuff) :)

> Noatun (or a plugin, even) could so something clever like move one window
> when another moves (emulating XMMS's approach).  You could creating an

That's already possible (see KJ dockmode) but I don't know how it behaves with 
larger windows, it might be a CPU cycles eater when you move the window ;)

> I don't entirely think of Noatun as a media player, I more like to think of
> it as a media player toolkit.  Anyone is free to anything they want in
> terms of plugins.

But you can't deny the fact that we need more interoperability between the 
different plugins so that they make it look like a media-player, not like a 
cobbled-together thingy (I think that's what many users criticize although I 
don't have a big problem with that, my Noatun setup is not feeling 
cobbled-together).

> > As I said before, I think that Winamps/XMMS's interface approach is not
> > perfect, however, good enough. That I am not alone with this opinion you
> > can see in this online poll:
> > http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=943&pollresults[943]=1

XMMS came up when WinAmp was VERY successful on windows (i.e. actually the 
only usable mp3 player at all) and thus many many many people started using 
XMMS on Linux as well (me included!). Due to the habit of having problems 
changing apps because they behave different (me again as a good example, I 
still stick to XChat although ksirc seems to improve a lot lately and 
konversation is there too) the userbase of XMMS is not decreasing although 
development is sleeping and many alternatives showed up in the meantime 
(Noatun is only one of the alternatives).
Often it's really about being lazy, and I can tell you, users are lazy ;)

> I'm not trying to win popularity contests, if I were, I'd be duplicating
> Windows Media Player's sorry excuse for a UI.
WMP has no UI, it's total chaos, I still don't understand how to use it. If we 
want to make Noatun worse we clone WMPs UI. The all-in-one-window approach 
really sucks IMO because I don't want to clutter up my desktop with eq, 
playlist, vis all the time. I'm really happy with having them seperated into 
several windows (just showing/hiding these should be a bit faster, i.e. I 
want keyboard shortcuts, maybe KAction will help me there).

> > Favourite Linux music players (04-05-03):
> >
> > XMMS: 82% (661 votes)

as I said, old school default player on unix

> > ogg123: 5% (41 votes)

what's ogg? ;)

> > mpg123: 5% (37 votes)

has no ui and by default skips like hell on any emu10k1 soundcard (i.e. it's 
crap).

> > (net)Rhythmbox: 4% (36 votes)

Never heard of it, sounds like another iTunes clone which I'd never use.

> > Noatun: 3% (25 votes)

Too many problems with arts, I don't know how to take any influence of that as 
I know nothing about arts internals or why its error-handling is so goddamn 
non-existant.

> > JuK: 1% (6 votes)

Too new to be popular, also another iTunes clone. Might be a good alternative 
for people who like to clutter up their desktop with a huge window.

> Windows: 92%
> MacOS: 5%
> KDE: 2%

What is MacOS? I don't understand why this OS gets mentioned, I know exactly 
NOBODY who owns a Mac :)

> Which is the best CPU?

Motorola 680x0 :P

> The fact is that even popularity contests aren't accurate.  People dislike
> change, and I can imagine that a good chunk of Noatun users are those who
> have never liked XMMS or Winamp (like myself).

Heh, I'm using Noatun although I liked WinAmp a lot. The good thing about 
WinAmp3 is that it's x times more complicated than Noatun ever will :)

> But I'm not going to change what I feel is a very well done design, or
> force "skin cancer" upon my users in the name of popularity.

What do you think about a first-time wizard where we can make the plugin 
choice easier for newbies? That way we don't have to ramble about the default 
UI anymore.

> > See it also like this, if you allow for improved playlists and skinning,
> > there will be not many people left critizing your work and comparing it
> > to Winamp/XMMS/K-Jofol, as it will look and feel (if these skins are
> > activated) the same. Just for your peace of mind! :-)
>
> A playlist plugin can do whatever it wants in terms of UI.  If you want to
> fork my playlist and make it skinable according to the XMMS skin format,
> you are free to.  Maybe it'd even end up in the KDE cvs repository!

I'd be all for it if anybody would do that. Takje a look at the winskin stuff 
and take the important parts over to splitplaylist and merge these two.

> You're going to have a hard time convincing me, as I'm happy enough just
> having a media player for myself.

Also more users == even more wishes and bugs ;)

Bye, Stefan aka mETz