[KDE/Mac] Fwd: Article: Slackware Developer Not Happy With KDE5 Development

[Mario Fux]

Am Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2014, 02.58:57 schrieb Ian Wadham:
> Hi Mario,

Morning Ian

So I finally want to answer or write something to this email.

> On 28/10/2014, at 10:55 PM, Mario Fux wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 28. Oktober 2014, 11.18:45 schrieb René J.V. Bertin:
> >> On Tuesday October 28 2014 09:54:49 Mario Fux wrote:
> >>> on Windows and Mac and almost everywhere. People work on what they use
> >>> themselves, mostly in the free software world, it's a bit different in
> >>> the corporate work.
> 
> Well, I think that needs to change a little in the KDE world, as it did in

And I think it's changing. We are these guys, René, you, Marko, Jeremy, me 
etc.

> the corporate world from about 1967 onwards.  The truth is that there are
> crowds of people out there who are using KDE desktops and Linux, not to
> mention hundreds of thousands of Brazilian schoolchildren IIRC…  Then
> there are guys like us on Mac and Windows who like the KDE applications…
> 
> KDE development is no longer a barnstorming exercise à la "Great Waldo
> Pepper" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Waldo_Pepper.  KDE is now a
> large aircraft, with a LOT of passengers.

/me couldn't agree more

[snip]

> > Might be. But I'd prefer to change "on our end" to "in our group". You're
> > not at one end of KDE. You're part of KDE. A relatively new and young
> > one but important one nonetheless.
> 
> Put away the violin, Mario… :-)

That makes sense. I'm really bad in playing the violin, my wife does much 
better ;-)

> Go and read the sad tale of
> https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/120431/, which ended happily, but only
> after I threatened to break every rule in the book…  And here I was trying
> to fix something that was no longer confined to OS X users, but was
> potentially affecting every KDE 4 installation in the world…  Two weeks
> later, I am still unwinding after nearly having a nervous breakdown.
> 
> Moral: The "relatively old" groups of KDE can be *very* unwelcoming and it
> does not help that they are obsessed with KF5 to the exclusion of all else.

I don't think it's that bad but I think I know what you mean and where you're 
coming from.

> OTOH, I do see that Marko, René and I are at last being treated with some
> respect (in spite of that "Screw OSX" remark in the aforementioned review),
> but it has taken *months* of constant struggle and conflict.  This is not
> the way for a group to attract "(wo)man power".

I agree. But honestly meanwhile I try to spend more of my time in parts of KDE 
where the people are friendlier and fight less often. But it's good to see 
kde-mac got some attention and they start to accept it and that you were so 
resistent.

[snip]

> >> I know, but once again that was done without feedback from platforms
> >> other than Qt/X11 on Linux.
> > 
> > That's simple to answer as well. If there are no Win or Mac developers in
> > KDE at a certain time they can't give feedback. That changes now and
> > Marko already blocked a KF5 release from the Mac side (there, real
> > feedback from real people ;-) and you're and other here are actively
> > working on KDE code and discussing stuff.
> 
> No, the KDE community needs to become PRO-ACTIVE.  It needs to go out and
> GET opinions and ideas, not just depend on whoever happens to be around.

Yes, I agree, but to be realistic there is lack of man-power almost 
everywhere. We should (and become) be more open but it takes time and a lot of 
energy. We just need more people using KDE software on Windows, Mac etc. and 
they are part of KDE and thus we need to work together. In the end (and that's 
of course just my opinion) it's not of much value and not really bringing it 
forward to expect from other people to do something. Not inside a free 
software community. We need to do it ourselves and together, constructively 
and that's what i like to improve and support.

> How is it possible to find out what the requirements are for a Mac or
> Windows version of KDE if you do not go and talk to some knowledgeable
> people?  The MacPorts developers, for example, have been around almost as
> long as KDE has.

And that's what we're doing now. I don't say it's easy but we're on it. 

> And the same goes for attracting good people to work on KDE.  Conduct
> surveys. Put on a "road-show" to visit universities and colleges,
> especially perhaps in India, China and Brazil, where there are loads of
> talented people just busting for a chance to make a mark in software and
> advance their opportunities in life.

Oh I'd love so much to do all this but it takes time, people, financial 
support, etc.

Best regards
Mario