[KDE/Mac] Re: KDE vs Macports (Was: trouble with snow leopard)

[Steven Britton]

To the first point regarding KDE-dependent packages being broken on
the Mac environment, it seems to me that given KDE is designed as an
environment in which to run dependent applications, when the dependent
applications don't run, someone (not necessarily you, but someone)
should probably look into it.  If I had more dev experience myself, I
might even do it myself, and when I'm finished the objective-C stuff
I'm doing, I might.

Maybe KDE can/should be ported into Objective-C, as a fork.  As
Objective-C seems to be designed as the native Apple dev language
through xCode, it would make sense to me to do so - and yes, I realize
that would mean a departure from the main KDE trunk.

To the second point (and while this may come across as defensive, it
isn't being written from a defensive point of view) I came to this
mailing list on the advice of a response to a message I posted on the
KDE forums regarding my issue.  I think that there's a problem there:
if the people on the KDE forums are directing "end-users" to this
list, but those subscribing to this list don't want "end-users" here
looking for help, but want to use the list for dev work, then someone,
somewhere has misunderstood the point of this list.

The solution, of course, would be to return to the kde mac-specific
forums and talk to people posing questions/asking for help in more -
shall we say, "trivial?" issues, and then, as you get to know the
people active in the forums, if someone seems serious about the dev
aspect, then invite them, privately, to a private mailing list that
isn't general public knowledge in the forum, or, if it become general
knowledge, then make it abundantly clear that the mailing list is
invite-only and specifically for dev work, NOT "support."

Steven C. Britton
Sent from my iPad

On 2011-01-04, at 6:54 AM, Mike McQuaid <mike at mikemcquaid.com> wrote:

> On 4 January 2011 13:33, Steven Britton <stevencbritton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The fact is that the moment something becomes publicly availably, be
>> it alpha, beta, gamma, omega, whatever, segments of the public are
>> going to begin using it, especially when the product is a dependency
>> for  something else.
>
> Yep, that's fair enough but I think developers have a different
> approach to users support questions and bugfixing when software is in
> these stages.
>
>> I came to KDE because I found KdenLive, a nice video editing package
>> which, until KDE version 4.5.4 came out, worked very well.  4.5.4 has
>> broken, from what I can see in the MacPorts bug tracker, every
>> KDE-dependent package out there.  This is a serious issue.  That is
>> why I am now here, subscribing to this list, and also why I am trying
>> to squeeze in a few minutes each day manually reinstalling 4.5.3.
>
> As neither a Macports developer or user I'm sorry this situation
> exists but I'd rather avoid trying to fix these issue. For what it's
> worth, I'm trying to improve the patch situation so Homebrew's KDE
> works better and (eventually) get us some native KDE/Mac packages.
>
>> I have asked about this in multiple places, and no one seems to know
>> anything - or care enough to actually respond - which, from an
>> "end-user's" perspective, extremely disappointing and frustrating.
>> People want to attract devs, and that's all fine and good, but without
>> "end-users", the dev work becomes rather pointless beyond development
>> for the sake of development - "because I can."
>
> Not if the developers use the software too and not if they're trying
> to improve it before announcing to end users.
>
>> If the issue posed by an "end user" is a simple one, a simple answer
>> will suffice.  I don't think that people who knowingly install a free,
>> open-source package expect paid-software level support, or a feeding
>> frenzy on every minor bug in the system; many times, a friendly nudge
>> in the right direction is all that is needed.
>>
>> My point? This may be a dev community, but don't write off the end users.
>
> The problem is when mailing lists become too high traffic with support
> issues with discourages development conversation or subscription.
> --
> Mike McQuaid
> http://mikemcquaid.com
> _______________________________________________
> kde-mac at kde.org
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> KDE/Mac Information: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Projects/KDE_on_Mac_OS_X