[kde-linux] 20090815KL -- SOLVED -- "Mangling" Updates

Sun Aug 16 17:50:08 UTC 2009

On Saturday 15 August 2009 07:50:20 am Duncan wrote:
> Bruce MacArthur posted on Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:05:56 -0500 as 
excerpted:
> 
> > Greetings --
> > 
> > It is VERY early on Saturday where I live, but I will not be 
spending
> > much time with my computer until Sunday afternoon -- so please 
be
> > more-than "at liberty" to take some time with this inquiry!
> 
> Yours is a very nice post, even noting you won't be back at it for 36 
> hours or so, so we can take our time answering. =:^)
Thanks for the compliment, Duncan.  I really TRY to be at least 
"decent" with the folks who are so kind as to try to assist me!!!

> 
> > I have an icon on the task-bar which points to some updates that 
are
> > ready for me.  One category (of four items) of these updates is
> > described as "blocked".  While I would like to "Apply" the bug-fix
> > updates and the security updates, I think that I want to avoid 
those
> > blocked updates.
> 
> The update function would be that of your distribution, not of kde.  
As 
> this is a kde list, the above disoriented me a bit.  Never-the-less, I 
> see from below that you are running kubuntu.  While the best 
course of 
> action would be to ask this sort of question on their lists/forums/
> whatever, you didn't know that, and since you are here, we'll try to 
> help. =;^)  But try the ubuntu/kubuntu forums/lists/whatever, if you 
> don't get an answer that quite satisfies you here.

You are absolutely correct to observe that I "didn't know that".  My 
apologies for the wrong guess as to where I should have posted; I do 
NOT like to be off-topic!  And Yes, I am on one of those -- but I doubt 
that I need it on this issue BECAUSE both Jim and you have already 
proven to be so VERY helpful.  THANK YOU!

> 
> That said, I run gentoo, not kubuntu, so my personal help will be 
> somewhat limited, but I see someone else has already answered 
with a bit 
> more specific instructions, tho they seemed to address a different 
aspect 
> of your question than I will, and there may be others posting as 
well.
I appreciate your spotting the fact of two questions -- "What should I 
do?" is functional and important, and "What is going on here?" makes 
it easier for me to generalize and avoid subtle repetitions!  BOTH 
replies are VERY helpful and MOST appreciated.

> 
> > On the other hand, these blocked updates are for (1) XEN 
administrative
> > tools {I am using VirtualBox, rather than XEN}, (2) Python 
bindings for
> > XEN, (3) General Linux kernel headers, and (4) Generic Linux 
kernel
> > image.  The XEN stuff wouldn't "necessarily" hurt and the Linux 
items
> > may well be desireable.  This leads me to wonder -- "WHY they are 
being
> > blocked?"
> 
> Generally -- and again I'm not a kubuntu user so the details may be 
a bit 
> different there, but generally -- "blocked" packages or updates can 
> indicate one of two things.  
> 
> 1) That there's a conflict between something you have installed, 
and the 
> "blocked" package or update.  Perhaps whatever is conflicting uses 
the 
> same files, maybe for the same thing, maybe for different things.  
Or 
> maybe they handle the same functions but in incompatible ways.  
Or it can 
> be indirect, in that one of the required dependencies conflicts with 
a 
> required dependency of something else you have installed.
> 
> The way this sort of conflict is resolved depends very much on the 
> distribution, and what the conflict is, exactly.  Jim's suggestion, 
> dropping to the command prompt and doing an "sudo apt-get dist-
upgrade" 
> will likely resolve the problem, but it may be that it doesn't resolve 
it 
> in the way you wish.  If you're uncomfortable letting it handle it 
> automatically, or to get more specific information, you'd need to go 
to 
> your distribution's (kubuntu's) forums and ask there, listing the 
> specific blocks.  They may ask about other stuff you have installed, 
etc, 
> or they may be able to quickly reassure you that it's safe to let the 
> automatic handling do its thing, depending on the specific blocker 
and 
> why it was setup /as/ a blocker.
> 
> 2) Sometimes it's a "soft" blocker.  "Soft" blockers are simply 
packages 
> that need something specific done either before they are applied 
or 
> immediately after.  In this case, it's not really a blocker, it's 
simply 
> setup as a blocker so it doesn't get done automatically, without a 
human 
> being prepared to make whatever change is necessary either 
immediately 
> before or after the installation is done.
> 
> Many distributions choose not to do this type of update at all while 
on 
> the same distribution version (kubuntu 9.04 or whatever).  Those 
users 
> won't see the update until they upgrade to the next distribution 
version 
> (kubuntu 9.10 or whatever).  Other distributions roll out such 
updates 
> when they are ready, but put these "soft" blockers in place so 
users 
> don't end up with a broken system due to an automatic update of 
something 
> that needed a manual intervention that never happened as it was 
all 
> handled automatically.  But if a distribution uses such "soft" 
blockers, 
> there's obviously a way to tell the package manager to go ahead 
and do it 
> when you're ready, unblocking it so it gets handled when you are 
prepared 
> to do whatever change is necessary at the same time.
> 
> > The "buttons" available are limited to "Apply all available 
updates",
> > "Refresh", and "History".  The "Help" and "Default" buttons are 
still
> > greyed-out.
> > 
> > QUESTIONS -- Is it possible (if so, then HOW is it possible) to 
apply
> > ONLY the bug-fixes and the security updates?  Or am I better-off to
> > apply all?
> 
> Regardless of which of these two scenarios above it is here, the 
> "blocked" updates normally wouldn't be applied by an "apply all", or 
> they'd not be listed as blocked in the first place.  So you /should/ be 
> safe in just hitting the apply-all button, and letting the system 
update 
> what it can.  In some cases, it may even be able to safely resolve 
the 
> blocks on its own, but as I said, those aren't normally labeled as 
> blockers then (but distributions may vary).  After applying what will 
> apply, if you wish, you can go to the kubuntu forums/lists whatever 
and 
> ask about whatever is still blocked.
This is EXACTLY the instructing and directing kind of information that I 
was seeking.  It is most encouraging to know that "All" doesn't 
necessarily mean "All" in a case like this!!!  THANK YOU for the 
clarification!

> 
> > PERSPECTIVE -- I am very much NOT a "bleeding-edge" Kubuntu 
user; I am
> > quite content to keep things simple and workable.  I value those 
who
> > will test everything, but I am incompetent for that kind of a role.
> > Please be so kind as to consider this aspect of ME before you 
comment!
> > 
> > And THANK YOU for the time you have spent with this inquiry!!!!!
> 
> Thank you too.  It's a pleasure trying to help! =:^)  While I don't 
run 
> kubuntu or know its specifics, the above is, hopefully, generally 
helpful 
> at the level you indicate you are.  Jim's answer was more specific to 
> (k)ubuntu, but it didn't seem to address the "why is this listed this 
way 
> and is it safe to proceed" or "how do I not apply the blocker bits" 
> aspects of your question.  I can't get that specific about (k)ubuntu, 
but 
> hopefully, the background of why blockers happen was helpful, and 
noting 
> that if it's a real blocker, the apply all shouldn't apply that bit of 
it 
> anyway, until you adjust whatever is causing the blocker, should be 
> reassuring.  But, you'll have to get someone with more specific 
kubuntu 
> knowledge to go much further than that, and unless someone else 
with that 
> knowledge posts here in the hours before you get back to it, that 
end of 
> things is far more likely to be resolved by the kubuntu folks in their 
> own lists/forums/irc/whatever.
As I mention above in this version of the posting, between Jim and you 
(Duncan), I could hardly ask for more.  ALL of my questions are quite 
adequately addressed, and I am confident without being cocky!  My 
sincere thanks to both of you!

> 
> Hope you get that aspect resolved too. =:^)
In the unlikely event that more details come to be needed, I will gladly 
go to the more-appropriate forum.  And THANK YOU for that 
clarification also!

> 
> -- 
> Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
> and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman
> 
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