[kde-guidelines] List view

[Heiko Tietze]

Am Donnerstag, 6. Juni 2013, 10:51:15 schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> On 06.06.2013 00:10, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 5. Juni 2013, 23:07:29 schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:
> >> For me, list boxes are a relic of the past that simply should go away.
> > 
> > Objection! Any file manager has a list view either with simple view, or
> > detailled, or preview (as far as I know that are the terms).
> 
> Yes, and because of the discoverability and accessibility problems,
> Dolphin (or maybe the kdelibs team, not sure) for example created the
> "click green plus sign to select" feature. And another way to
> multi-select (though only adjacent files) is to drag a frame with the mouse.
> Unless the Qt list widget has these features, it is far less usable than
> file managers.
> 
> > After all we need this widget/control/item to define when and how it
> > should be used. If you think a list view must not get implemented with
> > only keyboard access then we should add something like "If the list view
> > has multiple selection property apply check boxes to each item in order
> > to faciliate access."
> 
> Yes. That's basically what I meant by "I would not recommend a simple
> list box for multi-selection". For single selection with enough space
> available in the UI, a list box is fine. If users have to be able to
> select multiple items at a time, they have to be able to do it by mouse
> only (and by keyboard only as well, of course).
> So it looks like we do agree after all :)
> 
> > I would write it as "Consider to use...", and would add some thoughts when
> > check boxes are really recommended (lengthy lists, complex selection...?)
> > and when rather not (short lists, plain interface, expert users...).
> 
> Even for expert users with an on-screen keyboard they would still be a
> pain to use for multi-selection. I'd only recommend them if users
> usually only select a single item.
> 
> >> For shorter lists, a check box list is better than a simple list box
> >> because it allows to select single or multiple items without using the
> >> keyboard.> 
> > Check boxes makes a list heavier just due to the additional, dispensable
> > widgets/controls. They are not a solution of striking simplicity.
> 
> I agree that check box lists do not look very nice and leightweight, but
> I'd prefer discoverability and accessibility over a clean look here.
> 
> >> To be honest: I would not recommend a simple list box for multi-selection
> >> at all, for a simple reason: Only being able to select multiple elements
> >> with the help of the keyboard is both a discoverability and
> >> accessibility problem. People not used to them have no clue that they
> >> have to hold shift or ctrl for multi selection and people who cannot use
> >> a keyboard have to switch between on-screen keyboard and list box, which
> >> I can't imagine to> 
> > Agreed. But KDE users are not lusers.
> 
> I'd still try to avoid obstacles for new users if possible. In the case
> described above ("expert UI", rarely multi-select, not too long list)
> they may still be okay, though.
> 
> I've CC'ed the accessibility list because I'd like to hear what they
> think about list boxes and on-screen keyboards.

And it would be good to get more opinions from the usability team as well...