[Kde-games-devel] About recent IRC meeting

[Dmitry Suzdalev]

On Sunday 04 February 2007 03:29, Ian Wadham wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:55 pm, Dmitry Suzdalev wrote:
> > I've read a log of recent IRC meeting (it's a pity, but I wasn't there).
> > And I must say I'm totally excited of discussion happened!
>
> I could not be there either.  Where can I view the log?
Sending it attached :).

Cheers,
Dmitry.
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:00:16] <josef|vista>	dbdkmezz: hi... did you get useful feedback to your article?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:00:30] <dbdkmezz>	yeah, it was very useful thanks
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:00:45] <josef|vista>	all I've seen is a discussion about that OSX would support those languages we talked about, but in the end it turned out it doesn't
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:09] <dbdkmezz>	was that on slashdot? I saw that too
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:11] <tsdgeos>	time to start already?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:13] <piacentini>	Hi guys
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:20] <piacentini>	yup
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:31] <piacentini>	Let us see who is live here and who is logggin?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:34] <josef|vista>	dbdkmezz: yep, there I read it
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:46] <josef|vista>	I'm always logging until my HDD runs full
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:01:58] <piacentini>	introductions from the ones that are present, please
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:02:06] <piacentini>	Mauricio, working on kmahjongg
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:02:18] <dbdkmezz>	Paul, working on kolf
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:02:29] <nicolas030>	I'm here too: Nicolas (Roffet)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:02:53] <nicolas030>	(working on kblackbox)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:03:01] <josef|vista>	Josef, working on getting GGZ into KReversi as my next task, and oojah can also tell a bit about GGZ although he will maybe need a few more minutes to be present
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:02] <piacentini>	k, the others are probably lurking :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:23] <piacentini>	Let us follow the agenda?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:28] <piacentini>	First, SVG Status
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:38] <piacentini>	I updated the kshisen status today
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:46] 	 * josef|vista points to http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+Games+IRC+meeting for those who're new
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:04:47] <piacentini>	basically working, sharing libkmahjongg
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:05:11] <piacentini>	Ian also started the KGoldrunner conversion
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:05:35] <piacentini>	current code in SVN runs some elements from SVG (backgrounds, itens). I am working on the runner, which is still pixelated
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:05:46] <josef|vista>	kshisen feels a bit slow, it rescales several times when opening it
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:06:09] <dennis_p>	Mhm, K logo golden SVG coins jummie :-)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:06:18] <piacentini>	It should scale only when the main window changes size
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:06:26] <piacentini>	But this should occur when toolbars are created, etc
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:06:41] <piacentini>	any obvious way to avoid this?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:07] <josef|vista>	specifying a minimum size at startup could help
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:16] <josef|vista>	(for the canvas)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:21] <piacentini>	I think it has it, but I just remembered
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:31] <piacentini>	KShisen is not using QGV or KGameCanvas yet
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:36] <josef|vista>	ah
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:38] <piacentini>	It is still using the old QPainter code
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:43] <piacentini>	So it is definately slower
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:07:43] <oojah>	Here now... I'm Roger, I'm with ggz as well.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:08:18] <piacentini>	Any others, kblackbox, etc?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:08:39] <nicolas030>	Yes: KBlackBox
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:08:56] <piacentini>	knetwalk is using SVG as well as far as I can see
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:09:18] <nicolas030>	I changes the old central widget for a new one based on QGraphicsView
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:09:26] <nicolas030>	changed
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:09:52] <nicolas030>	So it looks now a bit better, I think, and it's scalable.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:10:03] <nicolas030>	But it's not over yet.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:10:31] <piacentini>	Are you guys generally happy with how thees conversions are going? Any pitfalls or suggestions we should discuss on the ml?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:11:07] <piacentini>	I think we are still short on artists, there is simply too much to do
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:11:38] <Boczek>	Do the animated sptites fit into Oxygen theming?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:11:41] <nicolas030>	I'd like to add some kind of animations in the game
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:12:09] <piacentini>	Boczek: in which game specifically?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:12:20] <Boczek>	eg. kbounce
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:12:36] <Boczek>	In KDE3 the balls were animated
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:12:57] <piacentini>	I think there are no restrictions regarding animation
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:13:14] <piacentini>	I mean, no guidelines regarding how things should animate afaik
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:13:17] <tsdgeos>	loosing animation would suck
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:13:30] <piacentini>	Just make it good!
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:13:39] <josef|vista>	I agree, some (not overdone) animation is always nice looking
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:13:40] <Boczek>	Ok.
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:14:07] <piacentini>	OK, for the newcomers, we are discussing the first item in the agenda
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:14:14] <piacentini>	SVG conversion status
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:14:16] <dbdkmezz>	I'm not sure how I'll make kolf scalable in a nice way, at the moment the only solution I can see is using QGraphicsView::fitInView, which doesn't look very good. but the mailing list is probably the place to discuss that
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:14:55] <piacentini>	Paul: yes, probably. But imo you should simply keep the aspect ratio
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:08] <piacentini>	Of course, simply is not always simple
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:12] <piacentini>	to implement
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:46] <piacentini>	So no more on SVG updates? Moving on?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:51] <dbdkmezz>	piacentini: yeah, I am trying to keep the aspect ratio, but havn't found it as simple as I had hoped, but mainly due to my Qt ignorance I think
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:55] <dbdkmezz>	ok
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:15:56] <_dirk>	mh
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:07] <_dirk>	I would like to replace some kspaceduel graphics with svg
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:17] <_dirk>	but I#m not able to do the graphics by myself
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:30] <josef|vista>	are there some good planet/moon/earth graphics for it somewhere?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:37] <nicolas030>	About SVG: Do someone can draw a nice "laser"? (for KBlackBox)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:46] <_dirk>	haven't found anything yet
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:48] <piacentini>	_dirk: you can add your request to http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+Games+SVG+status
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:55] <piacentini>	same for nicolas030
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:16:57] <nicolas030>	or know where to find one?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:17:01] <nicolas030>	OK. Thanks
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:17:26] <piacentini>	in theory, this is the place to communicate with artists
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:17:38] <piacentini>	But I believe Johann_ is offline
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:17:44] <piacentini>	and probably busy as well...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:18:07] <piacentini>	Do you guys think it is worth posting to kde-artists?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:18:12] <piacentini>	Regarding these specific needs?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:18:20] <_dirk>	hm.. seems we haven't enough artists for all games
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:19:11] <piacentini>	_dirk: yes, we need more recruiting. But if you build the support for plugging in SVG, they will come
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:19:36] <piacentini>	My suggestion is to implement crude graphics, but document well how they could be replaced
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:20:04] <piacentini>	I believe KDE4 is still at a stage where it is difficult for some people to build and use it
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:20:22] <_dirk>	sounds reasonable
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:20:30] <nicolas030>	OK.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:20:33] <piacentini>	So this tends to keep contributors unable to help directly
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:20:50] <Boczek>	I think that bored kde-look.org crew needs mode recrutation.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:21:08] <_dirk>	maybe do something like a "call for artists"
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:21:20] <piacentini>	_dirk: yes, we can do this
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:21:37] <Boczek>	Maybe some will join us when given screenshots in KDE4 brainstorm.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:21:45] <piacentini>	But we should have something concrete, a specific need like yours (dirk)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:21:48] <josef|vista>	showing off with a game which has improved a lot thanks to SVG should help, too
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:22:18] <piacentini>	K, so this is an important item for the meeting summary, we need to act on this
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:22:35] <_dirk>	of course, we'll have to assist artist to get them build kde4.. think this is a big hurdle to non-developers
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:22:52] <dbdkmezz>	yeah, I think your right there
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:23:10] <piacentini>	_dirk: that is why I suggested taking your game to a level where the artist can simply change a SVG and edit some meta description
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:23:19] <piacentini>	Then we could even do something like a KDE4 live CD
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:23:42] <piacentini>	KMahjongg is almost at this level, other games are also in the same trail
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:24:18] <piacentini>	Any more on this, or should we move to new games?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:24:33] <dbdkmezz>	should we have a centralised place for documention of how artists can change the graphics for each game?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:01] <piacentini>	dbdkmezz: maybe a wiki page?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:20] <dbdkmezz>	piacentini: sounds like a good idea to me
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:20] <_dirk>	these wiki pages have the problem that they aren't widely known
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:36] <_dirk>	maybe we should announce something on kde.org
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:41] <dbdkmezz>	we'd have to put out the info when we do the "call for artists"
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:41] <piacentini>	dbdkmezz: actually there is another item on the agenda today regarding games.kde.org, maybe we can discuss both together?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:25:44] <_dirk>	to get artists attracted
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:01] <piacentini>	So let us tackle this now
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:04] <nicolas030>	What would you write? Usualy it is easy to find the SVG file and to edit it. Or do I see wrong?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:20] <nicolas030>	(OK... I'm too slow)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:38] <piacentini>	nicolas030: some artists I know would prefer to be hand-guided at least during the first steps
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:49] <dbdkmezz>	we wouldn't need much, just the location of svgs, and maybe a brief description of how SVGs work if they are new to SVG
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:50] <piacentini>	Getting the SVG and specifications in a central page would definately help
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:26:53] <josef|vista>	nicolas030: I think that at some point, when themeability comes into play, creating theme packs somewhat separate from the games themselves should be done
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:09] <nicolas030>	OK :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:29] <piacentini>	Regarding the website, who added the games.kde.org topic to the agenda?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:35] <dbdkmezz>	are we planning a common approach to themability for all games?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:36] <piacentini>	Raise your hand and speak...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:47] <tsdgeos>	not me, but i think it has to be completely reworked
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:27:58] <tsdgeos>	or at least find someone that can work on it a bit
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:04] <_dirk>	and at least it would be easier for the artists to create nice graphics if they are able to actually build and run the games
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:07] <tsdgeos>	content is ancient
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:22] <piacentini>	tsdgeos: I think the problem is that is difficult to edit these sites in SVN
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:44] <pinotree>	well just ask sysadmin at kde.org if you need to access to that part of www
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:45] <piacentini>	Maybe we should try to run a kdegames wiki or something as the official
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:47] <tsdgeos>	piacentini: well, it's html after all
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:28:56] <tsdgeos>	the problem is having commit access
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:01] <piacentini>	tsdgeos: exactly
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:03] <tsdgeos>	but i have commit access to all www now
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:13] <tsdgeos>	so i can commit any patch you send me
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:20] <Pinaraf>	hello there
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:20] <piacentini>	OK, so that is a start from what we had a few months ago
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:29] <Pinaraf>	sorry, I didn't know there was a meeting...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:30] <pinotree>	++tsdgeos->karma()
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:33] <josef|vista>	why is access restricted to the games area at all? for www.k.o I can understand it, but for games.k.o I'd like to remove all ACLs to get more contributors
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:48] <pinotree>	josef|vista: just like edu.k.o, i'd say
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:29:57] <tsdgeos>	edu.k.o is ACL'ed too
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:12] <Pinaraf>	about SVG : I need some SVG showing planets for Konquest to improve the current set of planets...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:12] <pinotree>	better, edu.k.o is more aclìed than games
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:22] Join	ruphy has joined this channel (n=Riccardo at kde/developer/ruphy).
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:35] <ruphy>	due du dum
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:53] <piacentini>	So, do you guys think we should work on broading access to games.kde.org commits, or switch to a collaborative site?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:30:55] <josef|vista>	Pinaraf: that's similar to kspaceduel I think, smaller ones but could share the same set of planets
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:31:15] <_dirk>	josef|vista: interesting idea
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:31:33] <tsdgeos>	piacentini: i'd just ask for more access, if yuo give a reason good enough you'll get it
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:31:36] <pinotree>	piacentini: the 1st i'd say - the domain it represent gives it the touch of officiality
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:05] <piacentini>	k, so let us try to work with what we have then.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:06] <Pinaraf>	josef|vista: I'm interested
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:19] <piacentini>	Any candidates here for HTML revamping?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:22] <josef|vista>	I'd ask the www people if some header magic can be applied to make the pages look similar to the others, but not as boring... some more graphics are definitely ok for games pages
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:25] <Pinaraf>	the current SVG planets have a comic-like look
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:32] <Pinaraf>	a cartoon look...
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:32:58] <josef|vista>	Pinaraf: yes... but SVG has already finished on the agenda, we should discuss that later again, ok?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:05] <Pinaraf>	sorry
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:06] 	 * ruphy is a part-time artist
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:13] <Pinaraf>	what's on the agenda now ?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:14] <ruphy>	seen you needed us
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:17] <josef|vista>	web pages
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:27] Nick	dennis_p is now known as dennis_p-BSG.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:49] <piacentini>	I think this lack of updates in games.kde.org is a real problem, and we end up creating pages in the wiki to communicate
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:33:53] <piacentini>	Not the ideal situation
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:34:26] <piacentini>	But at the same time, we have no volunteers, so...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:34:49] <nicolas030>	I think Wiki is good for intern communication and games.kde.org more for extern communication, no?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:35:01] <nicolas030>	So it's not the same...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:35:39] <piacentini>	K, so the resolution is to communicate that we need volunteers to revamp the site?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:06] <piacentini>	And when we have volunteers, we will work on getting them access to commit, or Albert can commit patches in the mean time
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:12] <piacentini>	Looks good?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:19] <nicolas030>	yes :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:22] <josef|vista>	sounds like a plan
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:22] <tsdgeos>	yes to me
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:34] <piacentini>	K, sometimes we can not solve anything in these meetings
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:35] <pinheiro>	hi people
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:39] <piacentini>	But we can start processes at least
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:52] <piacentini>	first artist answering my call on kde-artists :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:36:57] <tsdgeos>	:-)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:37:03] <tsdgeos>	anything more on schedule?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:37:15] <tsdgeos>	i'd like a discussion about milliams game
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:37:18] <piacentini>	There is feedback for new applications
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:37:38] <pinheiro>	im a bit overwelmed with work
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:02] <josef|vista>	any ksirk, ksquares, ksudoku, ... people here?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:02] <piacentini>	tsdgeos: wanna handle it?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:15] <piacentini>	yes, they are here
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:20] <tsdgeos>	handle what?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:26] <ruphy>	piacentini, hey, no! I already answered! :P
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:32] <milliams>	i'm here for KSquares
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:35] <piacentini>	the discussion about ksquares
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:40] <ruphy>	piacentini, I'm an artis too
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:41] <piacentini>	because my copy is crashing
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:49] <piacentini>	ruphy: sorry man!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:38:50] <Josel>	i'm from ksudoku
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:03] <ruphy>	piacentini, np ;-)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:05] <tsdgeos>	ok
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:09] <tsdgeos>	about ksquares
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:15] <piacentini>	I just updated everything today, and ksquares is crashing on launch for me. 
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:17] <piacentini>	go
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:32] <tsdgeos>	basically i think the same as almost everybody said
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:38] <tsdgeos>	small nice game and quite polished
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:49] Part	milliams has left this channel ("Byeee").
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:52] <tsdgeos>	i think Ian sent a mail with things that can be ever more improved
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:54] <tsdgeos>	lol
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:58] <piacentini>	ooops
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:39:59] <piacentini>	lol
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:40:10] Join	milliams has joined this channel (n=matt at dyn-62-56-51-50.dslaccess.co.uk).
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:40:21] <piacentini>	yes, agreed on Ian's email, nice suggestions
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:40:58] <piacentini>	Let us start moving things around then?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:41:10] <tsdgeos>	so in my opinion it could be moved
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:41:18] <tsdgeos>	if noone disagrees at heart
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:41:22] <_dirk>	agreed, nice game
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:41:23] <milliams>	sorry, got disconnected for a second
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:41:40] <piacentini>	voted yes here, based on Ian feedback and the screenshots I saw
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:42:14] <piacentini>	So milliams, ready to move from playground?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:42:40] <milliams>	yeah, definitely. Thankyou :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:42:52] <nicolas030>	:) great
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:42:57] <_dirk>	grats ;)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:42:59] <piacentini>	about ksudoku, I like it a lot, and it could benefit from being in the tree as well
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:43:09] <piacentini>	josel: did you reach an agreement on this?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:43:12] <piacentini>	joining kde or not?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:43:29] <piacentini>	At least at the playground level
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:43:32] <Josel>	we decided to move to playground in near future
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:43:51] <piacentini>	great!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:44:00] <Josel>	we wanted to be there now, however there was not much progress in january
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:44:39] <ingwa>	Sorry to intrude, but is the kdegames meeting now?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:44:43] <Josel>	we have still some usability problems and some small bugs to solve for our last not kdesvn release
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:44:51] <piacentini>	ingwa: yes, welcome!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:01] <ingwa>	piacentini: Good.  I'll shut up and listen then :-)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:06] <piacentini>	45 minutes into it 
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:20] <piacentini>	Josel: k, so maybe by the next meeting?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:26] <piacentini>	we could have something on this front
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:48] <piacentini>	pino, tsdgeos: what are you guys planning for kombination/kiriki?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:45:55] <Josel>	we hope to be able to work on playground before the next meeting :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:05] <tsdgeos>	kiriki is *finished*
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:07] <piacentini>	Josel: great!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:15] <tsdgeos>	but imho not worth adding to kdegames
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:24] <tsdgeos>	so i'd just release it separately whe kde4 is out
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:29] <tsdgeos>	kombination is stalled
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:41] <tsdgeos>	i'm reworking network protocol so i can debug the problems i had easier
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:46:56] <piacentini>	regading kiriki: maybe an extragear type module for games will be in order for kde4?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:08] <josef|vista>	tsdgeos: what kind of protocol do you currently use?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:19] <piacentini>	and to accomodate other applications (too big, or eventually moved from the main distro?)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:27] <tsdgeos>	i sent xml over a socket
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:38] <josef|vista>	ok
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:44] <tsdgeos>	previously i sent raw data that made it impossible to debug :D
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:47:59] <josef|vista>	well, there are techniques for it :)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:48:00] <oojah>	I've heard that before...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:48:00] <tsdgeos>	piacentini: agree for the extragear-games thingy
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:48:51] <nicolas030>	extragear-games -> I like also the idea.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:48:52] <piacentini>	maybe we can start the ggz discussion in these last 12 minutes, introduced by your network related issues?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:49:15] <piacentini>	k, so we should revisit this extragear idea probably by next month
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:49:23] <piacentini>	or in the ml, before we decide to cut anything out
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:49:33] <_dirk>	what's about ksirk? nobody here from them?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:50:13] <piacentini>	_dirk: sorry, you are right. 
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:50:35] <piacentini>	I could not build ksirk yet, so I can not comment on it
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:50:46] <piacentini>	awfully busy month
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:07] <piacentini>	if the developer is not here, let us move to ggz, and continue to discuss ksirk on the ml
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:12] <Josel>	some other thing about ksudoku: we could need some ideas for improvments on usability things...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:35] <Josel>	i know this is a bit difficult, as we are still on sourceforge and kde3 only
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:37] <_dirk>	ksirk is definitely not ready for kdegames, I think.. but I really would like to have it in playground
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:44] <_dirk>	piacentini: ok
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:56] <josef|vista>	so let me start... We released GGZ 0.0.14 between the last meeting and this one, and were not killed by angry users so it came out quite well I think. For games support, I wanted to finish the KReversi support today but ran across an issue which I already fixed in the KDE3 version. So I'll need to rewrite the non-quantized packet reader (in addition to the already working quantized packed reader). Once this is done, we should (probably already now)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:51:56] <piacentini>	_dirk: so it is in the same situation as ksudoku
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:52:00] Nick	_milliams is now known as milliams.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:52:23] <piacentini>	just to wrap it up, moving things to playground is a good idea since it lets us help more easily :) go josef
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:52:47] <josef|vista>	Regarding the protocols, well oojah can tell a bit more on that... it's crucial to save every single byte for network transmissions
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:53:13] <josef|vista>	as soon as many players go online, traffic becomes an issue
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:53:43] <oojah>	That's not strictly true - many players online aren't a problem if they are in separate rooms.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:54:13] <oojah>	It stands to reason that bandwidth requirements increase more rapidly if all players are in the same room.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:54:56] <oojah>	Because each chat message, each lag update and any table changes must be relayed to every player in that room.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:56:34] <piacentini>	josef: so we will have a GGZ-enabled version of KReversi soon, for KDE4?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:57:36] <piacentini>	and by consequence, and example of how to integrate GGZ support for other games if desired?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:57:38] <josef|vista>	yes, it already launches with my latest patch but it "drops packets" because of the mentioned issues... once this is done, you can play directly against our Reversi server
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:58:06] <piacentini>	So any improvements oojah is making in network code handling will be shared by all clients
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:58:13] <josef|vista>	once kreversi is done, multiplying this to other games should not be that hard, at least if there is a matching server already
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:58:14] <piacentini>	including our GGZ-enabled apps
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:58:52] <piacentini>	K, I think this gives us a nice incentive to keep simple board games in the package, if they are capable of multiplayer gaming
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:59:02] <josef|vista>	well each game can still have different protocols, but we should watch out to optimise it a bit
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [17:59:03] <piacentini>	not sure if you guys agreed with this
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:02] <josef|vista>	I would move the kggzmod library to KDE SVN if desired, and also kggzgames once this is ported to KDE 4 (kggzgames currently isn't, it contains the dialogs, kggzmod contains the QObject thingies)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:07] <piacentini>	ok, meeting is ending, I will probably have time to wrap a summary during the weekend
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:16] <piacentini>	of course, we can continue chatting
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:40] <piacentini>	One topic: several people requested a later time for the meetings
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:46] <ruphy>	piacentini, at which e-mail address will you forward this?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:48] <piacentini>	2 hours later, is this feasible for you guys?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:00:58] <piacentini>	ruphy: maybe first to the kdegames ml
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:01:17] <piacentini>	and then post to a blog and it will show up in planet
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:01:32] <dbdkmezz>	piacentini: 2 hours later is fine for me
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:01:44] <piacentini>	should we try to rotate the time, just to see if it attracts the guys that are having trouble with this one?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:01:55] <nicolas030>	OK also for me
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:02:02] <piacentini>	and we can go back to 7pm in april
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:03:47] <josef|vista>	with that many people and topics, one hour is really a bit short
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:11] <tsdgeos>	i agree
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:21] <piacentini>	should we start it at 8 then?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:24] <piacentini>	and last until 10?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:25] <josef|vista>	I would encourage everyone to use the mailing list better... subscribe to it if you aren't on it yet!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:35] <tsdgeos>	i agree
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:41] <piacentini>	maybe we can have a more focused agenda in the first hour
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:48] 	 * tsdgeos reminds himself of Civ2 advisors *I AGREE*
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:04:54] <piacentini>	and chatting in the sequence
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:05:06] <piacentini>	with multiple topics going on at once, etc
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:05:10] <josef|vista>	tsdgeos: that's freeciv these days, and of course it ships with GGZ support :-)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:05:55] <tsdgeos>	josef|vista: does freeciv has advisors with Voice?
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:05:58] <piacentini>	one topic I would like to mention is maybe a shared way of configuring backgrounds for some games
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:06:14] <josef|vista>	tsdgeos: it does have sound effects, but no voice I think
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:06:20] <piacentini>	since several games are using SVG anyway, do you think this makes sense? at least for board games
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:07:33] <piacentini>	k, seems like it does not :) lol
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:34] <tsdgeos>	well
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:44] <tsdgeos>	sharing as many things as possible is good
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:48] <tsdgeos>	because of code reuse
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:50] <tsdgeos>	and
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:52] <tsdgeos>	user experience
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:08:58] <tsdgeos>	but someone has to do it
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:10:08] <piacentini>	I am going to do it anyway for libkmahjongg
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:10:31] <piacentini>	In the same way I did tile sharing for it, via a common kgameconfig tab
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:10:56] <piacentini>	Maybe I can implement it in libkmahjongg, and if it proves to be useful and well implemented, move it to libkdegames
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:11:51] <tsdgeos>	good
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:12:44] <piacentini>	I still need to adjust some of the code (learning more about kconfigdialog in the process). It is good to play in libkmahjongg, as I do not hurt other apps just yet...
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:13:52] <piacentini>	bye to all, should have the summary ready by Monday. If any of you guys feel tempted to post before this please do. I just have to finish some work in the next couple of days, otherwise I would do it sooner...
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:15:10] <dbdkmezz>	bye
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:15:14] Away	You are now marked as being away.
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:18:07] <_dirk>	cya
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:49:20] <dimsuz>	oh man! I'm late!
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:49:21] <dimsuz>	:)
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:49:33] <dimsuz>	had anyone recorded?
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[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:50:22] <ruphy>	dimsuz, piacentini
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:50:50] <ruphy>	dimsuz, piacentini has recorded them
[Thu Feb 1 2007] [18:50:53] <dimsuz>	piacentini: will you send log to mailing list?