[Kde-games-devel] Freeze in 6 weeks

Albert Astals Cid aacid at kde.org
Tue Feb 3 19:03:22 UTC 2015 

El Dissabte, 31 de gener de 2015, a les 19:38:27, Jeremy Whiting va escriure:
> Albert, Frameworks developers/maintainers,
> 
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Albert Astals Cid <aacid at kde.org> wrote:
> > El Dijous, 29 de gener de 2015, a les 10:05:01, Inge Wallin va escriure:
> > > On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 20:47:44 Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > > > El Dimecres, 28 de gener de 2015, a les 14:04:14, Inge Wallin va
> > 
> > escriure:
> > > > > On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 07:38:23 laurent Montel wrote:
> > > > > > I am agree with Albert if there is a problem with
> > 
> > network-transparency
> > 
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > MacOsX it's better to fix it that remove it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > That is not the issue. The issue is that it was promised that if you
> > > > > developed your program with KDE Frameworks 5 instead of KDElibs, you
> > > > > would
> > > > > get a more lightweight program that did not need any daemons to run.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Now this turns out to be not true.   *That* is what we want, not to
> > > > > remove
> > > > > network transparency per se. But if the promise from frameworks 5 is
> > 
> > not
> > 
> > > > > kept, what is there to be done?
> > > > 
> > > > Really? Who promised you that? That's never been the promise, the
> > 
> > promise
> > 
> > > > of KF5 is that it's more modular, and yes there's some libs that don't
> > > > need extra daemons and some that do need them.
> > > 
> > > I actually tried to do some research to find this promise in writing but
> > > except for pointing it out as a problem in an article on the dot I
> > 
> > couldn't
> > 
> > > find any written promise.
> > 
> > The list on http://api.kde.org/frameworks-api/frameworks5-apidocs/ has
> > three
> > items, functional, solution, integration.
> > 
> > As far as i remember, functional means you can use it standalone, solution
> > means it needs a daemon and integraion means it needs more stuff (more
> > daemons?
> 
> Is this categorization correct? Has it been checked with a dependency
> analysis to see that each functional framework is usable standalone? I
> understood the tiers concept but never did get my head around the
> functional/integration/solution concept yet, but would like to. At any
> rate, I think KNewStuff which I'm very familiar with doesn't seem to be
> usable standalone as the functional status it has implies. It depends on
> and uses KIO for all network downloads and uploads, which requires a daemon
> as far as I can tell (and is a solution) so should KNewStuff be changed to
> a solution also probably?

I see your email did not have much success getting answers from people that 
know things, you should most probably either change the subject or just send a 
new email.

Cheers,
  Albert

> 
> > > But I do remember bringing up this problem in a
> > > number of conversations with frameworks developers early in the
> > 
> > development
> > 
> > > cycle.  One of those times was in a frameworks meeting at Akademy in
> > > Tampere.
> > > 
> > > And the developers did say that bringing down the amount of
> > 
> > infrastructure
> > 
> > > that the first KDE application on an alien platform started was one of
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > > motivations for frameworks. Not the only one, of course, but still an
> > > important one.
> > > 
> > > > > > And this problem will be in other application.
> > > > > > It's not just a problem with kdegames so fix it for kdegames will
> > 
> > fix
> > 
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > all application.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We can't remove feature each time we need to fix on a specific
> > > > > > platform
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yes, it will be in other applications.  But that is the price you
> > 
> > have
> > 
> > > > > to
> > > > > pay for platform portability sometimes.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I never thought it was reasonable to have to start the full KDE
> > 
> > desktop
> > 
> > > > > infrastructure just to run an application from the KDE on, say,
> > 
> > Gnome.
> > 
> > > > > But
> > > > > that's what we had to do back in the kdelibs days. Frameworks 5 was
> > > > > supposed to get rid of that but now it turns out that it doesn't.
> > 
> > The
> > 
> > > > > question is: is this just not yet implemented or was this design
> > > > > goal
> > > > > abandoned?
> > > > 
> > > > What is "the full KDE desktop infraestructure" for you?
> > > 
> > > Let's skip the word "full", since I don't really know every nook and
> > 
> > crannie
> > 
> > > of the kde infrastructure.  But to start several daemons to be able to
> > > access a file on another server seems like overkill.  Even one, in fact.
> > 
> > Why starting a program to do something is an overkill? If i want to
> > convert a
> > pdf to a ps, running pdftops seems totally legit to me.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> >   Albert
> >   
> > > I understand (or at least I think I do) that kded is an optimisation
> > > that
> > > loads all the shared libraries once so that all the subsequent kde
> > > applications don't have to do it. Instead they are forked off from kded
> > 
> > with
> > 
> > > the libraries already loaded.  This is a good idea if you know for sure
> > > that you will be running a whole slew of such applications. But this is
> > 
> > not
> > 
> > > a very strong guess on non-KDE platforms and even less so on non-linux
> > > platforms.
> > > 
> > >       -Inge
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > 
> > > >   Albert
> > > >   
> > > > > This is what we need to focus on. Network transparency is *not* the
> > > > > issue.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >   Albert
> > > > > > >   
> > > > > > > > Cheers, Ian W.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > kde-games-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > kde-games-devel at kde.org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > kde-games-devel at kde.org
> > > > > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> > > > > 
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> > > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> > > > 
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> > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> > > 
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> > 
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