KAction and KShortcut in frameworks

[Mark]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Rick Stockton <
rickstockton at reno-computerhelp.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2012 23:21:25 +0200, markg85 at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Making this quite detailed and long mail as per request from David Faure
>> (twice);)
>>
>> So, I've been patching KShortcut up to support multiple shortcuts:
>> https://git.reviewboard.kde.**org/r/104801/<https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/104801/> and it's working just fine with
>> that patch. However, there seems to be some duplication between:
>> KAction - QAction
>> http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/**kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/**
>> classKAction.html<http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKAction.html>
>> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-**4.8/qaction.html<http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qaction.html>
>>
>> KShortcut - QShortcut
>> http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/**kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/**
>> classKShortcut.html<http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKShortcut.html>
>> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-**4.8/qshortcut.html<http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qshortcut.html>
>>
>> So lets go back to the basics here and see what is actually required
>> (K/Q)Action in KDE.
>> - QAction functionality as a base
>> - Global shortcuts
>> - Reset to defaults
>>
>>  I'm not sure that 'QAction' classes are a sufficient result. Would there
> be advantages to an event-based structure? IIRC, Qt has gone both ways
> (Gestures-->Actions, but Shortcuts-->Events-->Actions). I think that the
> events are better for listening, especially since Qt tries to manage
> Pointer Focus auto-magically. (And it's propagation decisions, from
> children to parents, are pretty much flawless.)


I don't understand you here. Please do clarify.

>
>  I don't know what setShapeGesture and setRockerGesture are supposed to be
>> since they have 0,0 documentation. So i'm assuming (for now) that they are
>> useless.
>>
> Gestures become a "bigger deal" in Qt 5.x, of course.
>
>> As for "reset to defaults", i don't think that should be stored in a
>> KAction abject. That feature is only usable in the Shortcut Editor
>> (assumption) so having this for every single KAction in all KDE
>> applications is a bit strange. Since the KAction has a name as well (back
>>
>> button, forward button ... just look at Shortcut Editor) it becomes fairly
>> easy to simply store the default shortcuts in some config (KConfig stuff)
>> file somewhere. So we don't need "Reset to defaults" in KAction. That only
>> leaves Global shortcuts that are not base functionality thus have to be
>> added.
>>
>> Note: i actually suggested the inclusion of global shortcuts in Qt by
>> default. Sadly my knowledge and time was way to limited to implement that.
>> If it had been implemented then we could have completely dropped KAction
>> and KShortcut. Right now it's on the "radar" of the Qt devs (Thiago
>> actually) but i don't know if this is something that will come in Qt 5.1.
>> Not really expecting it actually.
>>
> If Qt "Glbal Shortcuts" will ever be done, it will be done by us (and in
> the 5.1 timeframe, I think.) There's certainly great maintenance and
> programmer/user training benefits in having fewer layers and classes
> implementing "shortcuts" and their supporting/resulting behaviors. But the
> two big things which KDE has, and Qt doesn't, are
>   #1 persistent storage of users' Shortcut config info, separate from the
> programs and program libraries;
>   #2 A GUI to modify those shortcut lists (or, as you have noticed as an
> "issue" in KDE, the single item key/value pairs.)
>

True

>
> "Global shortcuts" require, at a minimum, the first of these things, with
> a fully documented schema for defining the storage contents. The second
> could be a user application (written in Qt, or written in KDE.) A new
> feature, which _could_ be added as well, would be to notify running
> applications of Shortcut changes- Global, and application specific, via
> DBUS or equivalent.
>
KAction is now defined:
>> - QAction as base
>> - add functionality for global shortcuts
>>
>> Global shortcuts are another story. There is KShortcut, but i really don't
>> see a point in keeping the current "primary/alternate" (thus only 2
>> shortcuts) option alive or even supported. I above mentioned patch in
>> reviewboard is already adding support for multiple shortcuts.For
>> frameworks
>> i actually want to go a step further. Or a big jump.
>>
>> Completely get rid of KShortcut and introduce 2 new classes:
>> - KInputShortcut
>> - KInputSequence
>>
>> Right now it's not possible to make shortcuts that use both your mouse
>> keys
>> and your keyboard keys. For example keeping control pressed and pressing
>> the mousebutton - something that on windows is quite frequently used to
>> select some fiels (like in excel),.
>>
> To me, this looks like a violation of Layers: hardware belongs to Qt,
> except where the WM (Kwin, in our case) needs to intercept raw events
> BEFORE they get to windows (for window-switching and desktop-switching
> shortcuts.) More importantly- this particular combination (and other
> combinations of mouse button + MODIFIER KEYS on the keyboard) - don't need
> to look at Keyboard events separately: We're given a mask of modifier key
> States within the Button Event signatures. Mouse button plus a "normal" key
> Event is way different of course. I wouldn't want to go there.
>
> And so, although you're paying attention to the keyboard, touching what
> you're talking about is purely mouse shortcuts - using the pointer device
> by itself. (One-handed, not two-handed.) I've been thinking about this for
> Qt 5.1. It corresponds to two of our all-time, top-20 RFE's:
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.**cgi?id=96431<https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96431>(shortcuts in general) and
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.**cgi?id=48062<https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48062>(now re-defined as a particular A18n feature... most of the comments and
> votes were really asking for # 96431.) That should be our #1 priority, I
> think.
>

Ahh, so you're already working on this for Qt 5.1! Nice to know.

>  == KInputShortcut ==
>> The same ashttp://qt-project.org/doc/**qt-4.8/qshortcut.html<http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qshortcut.html> only with input
>>
>> from all attached devices.
>>
>> ==  KInputSequence ==
>> The same ashttp://qt-project.org/doc/**qt-4.8/qkeysequence.html<http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qkeysequence.html> only with
>>
>> input from all attached devices.
>>
> I don't like the idea of extending a more specific QKeySequence class into
> a LESS-SPECIFIC, MORE GENERAL child class. And I don't like mixing all
> input devices together. We have QKeySequence separate from QGesture, and I
> think we should do the same for Button Clicks: Add a new, specific class,
> "QMouseSequence". And possibly re-factor, creating a new parent for both
> QKeySequence and QMouseSequence, and making that new Class the working
> "friend" of QShortcutMap?
>
> But in any case, I' feel that I'd like the Mouse Shortcuts to create
> instances of "QMouseShortcutEvent" on the focused widgets and surfaces.
> Does this sound good to you, or should we attempt a "pure KDE" resolution?
>
> I have a slightly different opinion here. Yes, in reality the *Sequence
and *Shortcut classes are just Keyboard and Mouse, but i'd like to give
them a generic name. Thus "InputShortcut" and "InputSequence" prefixed by
either a "K" or a "Q" depending on where it's going to be placed (In Qt or
KDE). My intention would be to first do this in KDE since the Qt 5.1
release is still quite far away and doing this in KDE first allows me (us)
to see if there aren't any nasty side effects of doing it this way before
adding it to Qt. But sure, you're solution works just as fine as well
even though your suggested QMouseSequence is going to do more and also
accept keyboard keys.. That might be a bit confusing since the name doesn't
imply that.

>
>  Back on the global shortcuts for a second. I might be hitting a little
>> snag
>> there. How are we going to tell that a shortcut is global?
>> Perhaps like this:
>> QList<KInputShortcut>
>> And a  getter and setter for KInputShortcut:
>> bool KInputShortcut::isGlobal()
>> KInputShortcut::setGlobal(**bool)
>>
>> The list would be passed in
>> KAction::setShortcuts(const QList<KInputShortcut>&  shortcuts).
>>
>> However, doing this would be easier but you lose the option to set a
>> global
>> shortcut:
>> KAction::setShortcuts(const QList<KInputSequence>&  shortcuts)
>>
>> So (for now) i would say: getters and setters for both KInputSequence
>> and KInputShortcut. Not very sure about this part yet. If KInputShortcut
>> is
>> used then the user can provide the option to make it global or not.
>> If KInputSequence is used then the shortcut is just as is and is local
>> only. Not a fact, just my idea.
>>
>> As for the current KShortcut and KAction. If you all like this idea and
>> would include it in frameworks if implemented correctly then i would like
>> to fully deprecate KShortcut in KDE 4.9 (removed in frameworks) and partly
>> deprecate KAction where needed. If this idea is accepted then i'm not very
>> sure about my earlier patch anymore. Since that seems somewhat temporary
>> if
>> we go by this new structure thus making my other patch(es) useless.
>>
> The fundamental question is: create a scheme for Qt to have dynamic,
> persistent storage of 'Global Shortcuts', or simply extend the current KDE
> scheme with a new "Class" of of shortcuts? KCM already separates "Gestures"
> under the label "Custom Shortcuts". The design which I would propose
> contains:
>
> (1) "Standard Shortcuts", including (1A) standard keyboard shortcuts; (1B)
> standard gestures (if any); and (1C) standard mouse shortcuts (if any).
> These would be designated by a HIG team, not the programmer.
> (2) "Global Shortcuts", with the same sub-categories. standard values
> should be pre-defined for many actions, but I don't think we should have
> separate GUI categories for standard versus custom Global Shortcuts.
> (3) Custom Shortcuts (for specific programs).
>

Yes and no. I would threat keyboard and mouse equally since you use
them simultaneous as well (one hand on the keyboard, one on the mouse..).
So imho it should be like this:
1 "Standard Shortcuts"
 .. 1A Input Shortcuts (keyboard and mouse)
 .. 1B Gestures

2 "Global Shortcuts"
 .. 1A Input Shortcuts (keyboard and mouse)
 .. 1B Gestures

3 "Other Shortcuts"
 .. 1A Input Shortcuts (keyboard and mouse)
 .. 1B Gestures

>
> However, I think that the KCM shortcut scheme needs a complete rewrite: In
> addition to viewing and modifying shortcuts by type, I think that we need
> to offer Users the ability to view ALL shortcuts which are effective on a
> specific program, and also view ALL shortcuts (across all programs) invoked
> by specific QKeySequence, KKeySequence, QGesture, KGesture, QMouseSequence,
> or KMouseSequence invocations. (Assuming that the creation of persistent,
> but dynamic, shortcuts and equivalent "seqences" within maic but "Global
> olbal
>
> What do I mean by a "MouseSequence"? It's a button event (button press or
> doubleclick) with optional keyboard modifiers, AND with optional "mouse
> modifiers". The mouse modifiers are those 3 keys which are given to us with
> every Mouse Event, in the "State" byte. (LeftButton, RightButton, and
> MiddleButton). Holding RightButton down, while clicking another button
> (e.g. ForwardButton) constitutes a different QMouseSequence than clicking
> the button alone. (With a gamer mouse like mine, this helps to provide for
> a very large number of unique "QMouseSequence" instances.)
>
>
>  To get all of this working is quite a bit of work and certainly by no
>> means
>> easy for me! But i like to do this so why not:)  And i have some free time
>> the coming weeks so right now is the best time to do this.
>>
>
> And so, I feel that this is not KDE-only, and not short-term: It involves
> new QT Classes and API, targeting 5.1 and KDE frameworks at a level based
> on that Qt. I also feel that the specific list of default mouse shortcuts
> should be designed first, by HIG people. Let's focus on an optimal UI
> first, for both shortcut usage (in production, under the hands) _and_ for
> shortcut management (giving KCM more "View" capabilities, not just more
> "Controller" capabilities.)
>
>  I did do a bit of brainstorming in here while typing. I hope it's all
>> clear.
>>
> And you did a great job, thanks!
>
>  Please do give your opinion/input on how we should proceed with this.
>>
> Cheers, Mark
> ______________________________**_________________
> Kde-frameworks-devel mailing list
> Kde-frameworks-devel at kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/**listinfo/kde-frameworks-devel<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-frameworks-devel>
>

So, to sum it up.
1. There really is a big preference to get combined input (keyboard and
mouse) in Qt and not in KDE. You (rick) are even working on that and it
should (or could) land in Qt 5.1.
2. There needs to be a HIG designed standard for a range of predefined
keyboard shortcuts in Qt, not KDE.
3. There needs to be some way of storage for keys, give them a default
value and restore that value on the user request. This is what KDE has with
Shortcut Editor. The app itself should not be in Qt, but the storage of the
data should live in Qt to make it platform independent.

Once the above 3 things are done then the following can be done in KDE
1. Full deprecation of KAction and KShortcut in frameworks
2. Shortcut Editor to be based on Qt's standard keys dataset which should
be designed by a HIG.
3. Let all KDE SC apps use QAction and Q_something_Sequence,
Q_something_Shortcut rather then KDE specifics.

I personally do not want make the Qt specific parts. It's simply way to
difficult for me to start. Qt doesn't even have a 5.0 final release yet. I
just like to stay away from it till that is done. I do want to work on the
KDE parts.

As for making a "HIG" keyboard standard list. A very good starting point is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts

Every single line where the same key combination is used in both: Windows,
Mac, KDE en GNOME can be considered as de-facto standard key imho. Though
the list has to be viewed with care since the very first item "Activate
current application's Menu bar" is already wrong for KDE. It's not just
ALT. It's ALT + M iirc.

While looking at that wiki list i'm quickly realizing that we're never
going to get a standard keyboard + mouse mapping for generic keys across
all major desktop environments.. Perhaps this should (sadly) be platform
specific thus probably be done through the Qt platform plugins... And this
is certainly not going to work in a few weeks..

Cheers,
Mark
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