Aw: Re: LabPlot - Cannot print or export

[Stefan Gerlach]

Hi Bill,
> I always always always test new stuff on a virtual machine before letting it onto my main systems.  If it blows up, I can revert to a snapshot.  
> On a real computer, if it blows up I often have to rebuild from the metal.  It is a risk not worth taking, and a problem that has bitten me many 
> times.  It is a lesson I learned the hard way.

Flatpaks are installed as user in a single directory. You are totally save when using a different user account.

> The main issued I found with the flatpak for LabPlot is that it does not save files where I expect it to.  I specified "/home/bgee/Documents" as 
> the directory.  LabPlot reports success.  If I save the file again, LabPlot reports that the file is already there.  However, I cannot see the 
> file with any other program!  Bash, Krusader, Dolphin ...  None of them see the files I saved out of LabPlot.  In my mind that is reason enough 
> to not use the flatpak.

I will take a look. Nobody else complained so it may be a problem of Fedora only.

> There may also be problems with themes, icons, fonts etc.  I did not test for that.  The Z-order problem with file-open and file-save dialogs is 
> very annoying but not quite a show stopper

It's the first version that we packed as Flatpak and there are still some edges :-)

> As a general philosophy, I still think that flatpaks, snaps and containers are imperfect solutions for which no problem exists.  Let's assume, 
> for example, that I choose to run EVERY application I use as a flatpak.  That means Firefox, LibreOffice, KMail, KOrganizer, KeePassXC, Audacity 
> et.al.  Each of them brings in and launches a complete version of KDE.  None of them is running in the same sandbox, so they cannot see each 
> other and use each other's services.  If, for example, I click on a KMail attachment to open it, does Gwenview open in the same sandbox as 
> KMail?  If I click on an image in Firefox, does it open the same Gwenview instance as the one that KMail launched?  If I click on an email 
> address in Firefox, does that launch a new instance of KMail or does it use the sandbox that is already running?

Flatpaks are normally only an extension of a full distribution. There are of course basic runtimes (like a KDE installation) and communication 
methods that can be used by different Flatpak applications. I'm not a Flatpak expert but it should be easy to select the system or the flatpak 
version of a package when needed.

> KeePassXC connects into Firefox to provide password filling.  If they are running in separate sandboxes, then how are they to talk to each 
> other?  If I make a settings change in the KDE System Settings application, how does that get inside all the different KDE sandboxes?

There are common settings when all KDE apps use the same runtime. You can have different runtimes (versions of KDE), so this may be a problem.

> I understand the problems with "DLL Hell", or its equivalent in Linux.  I made a good living for many years doing Windows tech support.  I think 
> that flatpaks, snaps and containers are an interesting attempt to solve that problem.  However, the only result has been to change the 
> appearance.  It is not gone - it just looks different.

"DLL Hell" was caused by every app providing own libraries but did not use a sandbox. This is not a problem in a Linux distribution or in Flatpak.
We encourage all distributions to provide packages for LabPlot but the latest version on most distributions is only available via Flatpak (when 
not compiling it yourself). The download numbers are quite high so many users seem to appreciate it.

> I am - and remain - a committed contrary curmudgeon!  :-)  I think the real answer is to find a Fedora packager and ask them to create a 
> repository package for LabPlot 2.8.1.

We are working on that :-)

best regards,
Stefan

> 
> On Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:38:15 AM CST Stefan Gerlach wrote:
> 
>  > Hi Bill,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > i maintain the Flatpak package, so i can hopefully give some answers.
> 
>  > Flatpak is installing a package inside a sandbox. You don't need a VM to test it. It only needs a few system libraries. The advantage is that
> 
>  > you can run the same package on many different systems. The disadvantage is that it brings all libraries it needs (Qt, KDE, etc. in our case),
> 
>  > but several apps can use this so called runtime environment.
> 
>  > I can check on Fedora if there are problems due to LabPlot running in the Flatpak sandbox. The Z-order or theme problems may also be related to
> 
>  > Flatpak settings or missing configuration files. We can check this.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > best
> 
>  > Stefan
> 
>  >
> 
>  > On 05/01/2021 02:33, Bill Gee wrote:
> 
>  > > Hi Alexander -
> 
>  > >
> 
>  > >
>