[kde-doc-english] sudo? - DOCUMENTATION

[Yuri Chornoivan]

написане Thu, 23 May 2013 23:29:11 +0300, Jerry Nelson  
<jerrynelson at speakeasy.net>:

>
> At 5/21/2013  01:49 AM  Tuesday, you wrote:
>> написане Tue, 21 May 2013 04:35:46 +0300, Jerry Nelson
>> <jerrynelson at speakeasy.net>:
>>
>>> "Sudo" does not appear in the alphabetized list.
>>> I see no topic heading on root, or privileges, or super user.
>>>
>>> I start the editor, I am not warned I have no privileges to change the
>>> file, I
>>> work and cannot save my work.  This is a dead end that wastes my work.
>>>
>>> Please enrich the documentation to deal with "privileges", "superuser"
>>> "sudo".
>>>
>>> Please add a warning if I lack r/w privileges for the file I have  
>>> opened.
>>>
>>> Please make a menu item that gets me into sudo mode even if the menu is
>>> only
>>> informational and I must relaunch the app myself.
>>>
>>> I apologize in advance if there are answers to these issues in Kate and
>>> I just
>>> did not see them.
>>>
>>> kdesudo kate?
>>>
>>> --jerry
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sure, it's a Kate bug (depends on developers PoV but closing without
>> prompt to save the file with a different name is not a nice thing).
>>
>> Can you file a bug report against Kate [1]?
>>
>> @all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter about
>> su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account that
>> kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your answers.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Yuri
>>
>> [1] https://bugs.kde.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=kate&format=guided
> Yuri,
> I filed the bug report.
>
> When a noob starts to edit and forgets sudo, then
> can't save, what helps a lot is education and usage examples.
>
> The glossary needs to have terms like "superuser"
> "root user" "sudo" and "kdesudo".  Even though
> the concept "root" made an appearance in the
> blockbuster movie "Jurassic Park", it still needs
> to be introduced to people for whom it never existed, or who forgot the  
> movie.
>
> For help about the relationships between things
> and their larger purposes (rather than the syntax
> of the commands needed to accomplish those
> purposes), the glossary is the avenue of entry.  It matters.

Below is KDE 3 entry on this topic:

<quote>
Using KDE as Root

Francis Giannaros <francisg at gmail.com>

For UNIX® operating systems there are often different users, which in turn  
might have different privileges. The conventional method is to have an  
ordinary user account, whose files are generally stored in /home/username,  
and then to also have a root account. The root, or Super User, account has  
system-wide privileges, being able to modify any file on the system.

Although this means that it is easy to perform administrative tasks  
without hassle, it also means that there are no security restrictions  
imposed upon it. Thus, a small typographical error or other mistake can  
result in irrevocable damage.

Some of the operating systems that run KDE come with a graphical root  
login enabled. Despite this, you should never log in to KDE as root, and  
you should never need to. Your system is far more open to attack,  
particularly if you are browsing the Internet as root, and you  
dramatically increase your chances of damaging your system.
Some Linux® distributions have tried to stress this point so much that  
they have disabled the root account altogether, and instead use the sudo  
model. Nevertheless, the basic security model in sudo is the same as su,  
and thus they share the same security strengths and weaknesses,  
essentially.

If you should ever need to run a program with Super User privileges, then  
it is always recommend that you use KDE su. From Konsole or from hitting  
Alt+F2, enter kdesu application, and the application will be run with the  
appropriate Super User privileges.

Even if you have set up your system to use sudo, or you are on a  
distribution that uses sudo, such as Kubuntu™, you should still use KDE  
su. The program will be appropriately modified by the developers to use  
the correct settings. You should not, however, ever use sudo application  
to run an application with root permissions; it can derange permissions of  
certain configuration files for a program. Running a graphical  
applications as root in general is not a good idea, but using KDE su will  
always be your safest bet with it.

Related Information
KDE su Handbook
</quote>

KDE su docs:

http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kde-runtime/kdesu/index.html

kdesudo was developed by Ubuntu Team apart from main KDE tree to suit  
Ubuntu and derivatives needs. We do not have access to its code and  
documentation (there is none btw). It works in a similar way as kdesu.

There is no need to start Konsole btw. Just press Alt+F2 then enter  
"kdesudo kate" (Ubuntu) to start Kate under root priviledges.

> I still wonder (perhaps others also):
>
> 1. Is it OK to start a GUI app from the CLI with a sudo or kdesudo  
> command?

The system is yours. It is up to you and your knowledge about what you are  
doing to determine what is "Ok". ;)

>
> (BTW, the Samba Server Configuration app, a GUI
> for system-config-samba, cannot be started from
> the KDE Application Launcher Menu [mode].  Samba
> has a pop-up to ask for the user pwd, but the popup will not accept any  
> pwd.)
>
> 2. What is the difference between sudo and
> kdesudo or may I use them interchangeably?

See above.

> 3. Usage examples rather than man page text is the goal.
>
>          "An easy way to edit a file in a folder
> with permission restrictions (e.g., an important systems folder)
>          is to go to the folder that contains the file and start Kate  
> with
>          sudo kate NameOfFile2Edit."
>
>          If you are building a new system, have
> added a drive, and need to change the file system
> table of drives, "fstab," you might do this:
>          pwd - Where am I now?  Print my Working Directory.
>          cd /  -  Change my director back up to the root.
>          cd /etc  Change back down to the /etc folder.
>          sudo kate fstab

The above is not a user documentation. This can heavily broke your system.  
Mounting should be controlled through udisks (config is XML-driven) not  
through /etc/fstab

>
> CONCERNING COPYING OLD DOCUMENTATION INTO NEW:  ANSWER: YES, DO IT.
>
> Yuri wrote 5/2013:
> @all Regarding documentation, can we just copy the old chapter about
> su/sudo from KDE 3 User Guide to Fundamentals taking into account that
> kdesudo is Ubuntu specific?
>
> Please divide all the documentation into
>
> 1. FOREWORD
>
> 2. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT PROGRAMS YOU WANT TO LAUNCH & USE
>          alphabetical list
>          if you break up the list,
>          you must not divide it in any way that is different from
>          how the Applications Launcher Menu
> [mode] chooses to divide the apps.
>          It is OK, it is expected, that several
> programs will appear in both the "want to launch and use" list,
>          and in the "move around the operating
> system and change/fix stuff" list.

The idea of Plasma is that you select the task you want the system to do  
or application you want to start (Kickoff, any other launcher or Alt+F2).  
Applications in KHelpCenter are sorted exactly as they are in the main  
menu.

>
> 3. DOCUMENTATION ABOUT VISITING AND MOVING AROUND IN THE OPERATING SYSTEM
>
> Documentation [about specific programs, and,
> rarely, particular commands] that we need to add pgms:
>          documentation to read if you want to run
> sudo apt-get install or find out what that means,
>          or learn how to look for other
> "packages" to install: the Muon Package Manager, Ubuntu Software Center
>          sudo apt-get install software-center
>          Mention the Panel and Widgets.  Mention
> the search command in duckduckgo.com !upackages software-center
>          "For programs that launch all the
> programs, read about:  link to Application Launcher, others.  "

This is highly Ubuntu-specific. Should be included into Kubuntu docs (now  
unmaintained). Muon does not have docs as well.

>
> Documentation [of pgms, apps] to read if you are
> adding drives or thinking about using a file
> system other than the current
> default:  gparted,  KDE Partition
> Manager,  fstab, mount, umount, etc see also 3rd
> party pcmanfm . . .    mkfs.btrfs, apt-get install btrfs-tools.
>
>          "gparted / view / file system support"
> seems a very buried, indirect way to find out
> what file systems actually live in this new world.
>
>          If there was a list of supported or somewhat-supported file  
> systems
>          (the list does not have to definitive;
> we need a guide, not a guarantee; you write, we
> wont' sue, just put in a disclaimer)
>          with a list of file systems in the
> documentation , then under btrfs I might discover
> that btrfs-progs is now btrfs-tools,
>          whatever.  The documentation would be
> the launch pad for discovery that is my problem, not yours.
>          You are figuring out how to create an
> overview that is also tied to specific programs,
>          you are not telling noobs to go out and kill themselves.
>
> Documentation to read for file management --
> moving around the folder tree, viewing and
> editing files, creating network shares,
>          what can you do with Nepomuk and Strigi?  Dolphin!!  pcmanfm

pcmanfm is not a part of KDE.

> Documentation [which pgm names?] to read if you
> want info on the opsys itself, or the underlying hardware
>          KInfoCenter, System Monitor, maybe there are more . . .

All this included. Just install the docs.

>
> THE FOREWORD
>
> The FOREWORD can divide up the landscape in whatever is a convenient way.
>
> I need to have several things mentioned, be told
> roughly their relationship, and be told
> explicitly (just a link) where to get more
> information about them.  The essential,
> mysterious things for the Foreword include:
>
> Ubuntu, Kubuntu: both are variants of  Linux (you
> could reference a famous book or Website),
> Kubuntu is the KDE flavor of Ubuntu, and KDE is
> mostly graphics technology for changing how
> Kubuntu does its desktop compared to
> Ubuntu.  (References welcome.  I suggest using
> only famous institutionally stable ones that you
> won't have to change or update often).
>
> I need a word about the relationship between the
> kernel and the overall "Ubuntu" or "Kubuntu "
> operating system.  Makes me think I don't
> understand what a kernel is when people in this
> world can run an old kernel with a new operating
> system (to save compatibility with a major app they have in production).
>
> Now you are in a strong position to solve the
> mystery of the meaning of a "Long Term Support"
> edition  -- what must change, what will not change if you choose this.
>
> You can give your own opinion ("In the humble
> opinion of some Kubuntu community members . . .
> ").  Every time you realize that entire
> university course have been devoted to something
> you are oversimplifying, just make a humorous excuse and say it anyway.

This was and is a part of Kubuntu docs.

>
> It's nice that there is such a thing as a KDE 3
> User Guide to Fundamentals, and, here in the
> forward --- where it is nailed down in one or two
> sentences what KDE, Kubuntu and Ubuntu vs the
> kernel are --- here would be a fine place to
> discover its existence and have a link to it.
>
> ABOUT THE COMMENTS AUTHOR:
> I have used personal computers for over 30 years
> but I am a Linux novice.  My puzzlement over
> obvious things ("What is KDE?" "Just the
> desktop?") can be as great as a true noob, but
> (to my frustration) I know just what I am missing
> and how easy it would be to understand, if only someone would tell me.
>
> I hope this helps.  I am in the midst of a big
> install, but soon I will forget the pain (and any
> suggestions that might have been useful), so I
> tried to capture what it feels like (capture the cognition, actually).
>
> Make what you are creating the central place to
> start.  Let it link (selectively!)  to the
> definitive things in other parts of the
> open-source, Ubuntu / Debbian world.  Your
> documentation cannot ever be complete, it cannot
> be definitive ("Sue me if I'm wrong").   But it
> can be the best place to go, the best place to
> start.  "Discovery begins here."
>
> --jerry

Thanks for your comments. We will try to implement some important parts  
but as a part of KDE documentation only. Kubuntu docs should be written  
and maintained by the Kubuntu community.

Best regards,
Yuri