New releases for bugfixes

[Reindl Harald]

Am 19.09.22 um 14:57 schrieb Neal Gompa:
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 5:41 AM Reindl Harald <h.reindl at thelounge.net> wrote:
>>
>> Am 09.09.22 um 11:42 schrieb samuel ammonius:
>>> Thanks. I hadn't thought of a lot of these issues before.
>>>
>>> I think the biggest one is that If there's an update that the package
>>> manager didn'tknow about, the user would have to update right after installing, and
>>> the bug would come back if the user re-installed or updated the app. Sorry everybody
>> no the biggest issue on the userside is that nobody wants every random
>> application tamper the system
>>
>> if i want applications asking me about updates i could have stayed at
>> windows and "yum upgrade" was the main reason for Linux
>>
>> when you open that can of worms imagine where it ends
>>
>> security wise it's a nightmare because you not only have the
>> distribution you need to trust - intrusion on any upstream would
>> directly hit you at any random point in time while distribution updates
>> are usually tested at least by some people and changes reviewed by
>> downstream maintainers
>>
>> and who does the work and deal with bugreports "the update of kate
>> destroyed it on my system and i don't know why nor how i revert it"
>>
>> with the package manager i type "dnf downgrade kate", file a bug against
>> the distribution and kde upstream isn't involved at all
>>
>> upstream opensource developers write the code, that's it, they don't and
>> shouldn't need to care about every downstream distribution and it's
>> pitfalls - it's wasted time because that's what downstream component
>> maintainers are for
>>
>> the fedora maintainer from kde likely has no knowledge about Gentoo,
>> Ubuntu, SuSE for good reasons and you think blow that load to upstream
>> developers would help anybody?
> 
> Well, actually, most of us do know each other and we do collaborate
> from time to time. I personally know Fabian Vogt (the maintainer of
> the KDE stack in SUSE distributions) and I talk to Rik Mills (the
> Kubuntu maintainer) every once in a while. Same goes for Mageia,
> OpenMandriva, Debian, and others.

don't change the fact that downstream and upstream are different worlds 
at the end of the day when it comes to apply a bufix patch

> Admittedly, I don't know who works on KDE Plasma for Gentoo, but I'm
> peripherally aware of their work.
> 
> As maintainers of KDE software in our respective distributions, it's
> our job to bring our concerns upstream as needed. But also, when
> distributions have a conflict, we *all* have to work together to
> figure out a solution. If we don't, we risk a situation where KDE
> eventually evolves into other similarly-sized desktop environment
> projects where they give the downstream stakeholders the finger
> because they don't trust them.

but the proposed idea was BYPASS you and apply updates directly from 
upstream

> Also, many of the upstream KDE Plasma developers are in fact distro
> developers. It's not the majority anymore like it was in the old days,
> but a good chunk of them are.
but hardly the majority and even if that could change any time - 
especailly for small bugfix patches it's irrelevant when one comes to 
the idea apply them directly from upstream up to "build them local from 
source automagically"

the general rule is "upstream is upstream, distro is distro" and for the 
sake of god that don#t mean they don't talk to each other