Formal complaint concerning the use of the name "System Settings"

[Ambroz Bizjak]

Hi Thomas.

> Sorry for stepping in here, but are you really discussing to present
> the users different names for applications (not the bins, but we're
> talking about joe) under different circumstances so if i'd tell a user
> to run "foo" he won't be able cause it's called "bar" in his DE?
Yes, that is what this extension would allow. It's a powerful tool,
and any powerful tool can be abused. The presumption of course that
people choosing the names will choose them sensibly. For example, in
the System Settings case, in KDE, there could be "System Settings" and
"Gnome System Settings", with the former being the KDE version;
similarly in Gnome. And I think it's better than having two
identically named "System Settings", or having both of them always
prefixed, i.e. "KDE System Settings" and "Gnome System Settings". For
example, consider the user asks you how he can change the fonts. You
would simply tell him to open "System Settings", and it would open his
desktop's native configuration tool, which should work even for
non-native applications IIRC. On the other hand, if he says that he
changed something, but it didn't work in that particular application,
you would tell him to open the other System Settings (better than
telling him "kcmshell4 whatever"!)

> The .desktop file already knows a name and a generic name and the
> representation (aka "runner") could be smart enought to detect
> pseudo doublettes and use the generic name by default and attach the
> non generic name  (or, as LLOD the binary) for clarification if
> necessary or just to be "honest".
This doesn't solve the original problem. The two "System Settings" in
fact have the same Name. It is also harder to implement, and the
behavior is non-obvious.

> You're currently only talking about solutions covering LANG=C but you
> cannot possibly expect translators to avoid such clashes in their
> translations if the application name does not contain some trademark.
> Eg. "system settings" as well as "configuration center" could easily
> end up as "Systemeinstellungen" in German - simply cause it's (iirc -
> bee a long time) the winblows term - some languages might not even
> leave any options in some cases.
My proposal is not tied to English in any way. The individual
Specific-DE- prefixed keys would come localized, just like the
non-prefixed keys. I don't see how choosing sensible names in other
languages could be much harder than in English.

Regards,
Ambroz

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Thomas Lübking
<thomas.luebking at gmail.com> wrote:
> Am Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:45:26 +0200
> schrieb Ambroz Bizjak <ambrop7 at gmail.com>:
>
>> (Mark, sorry if you're getting this twice, I clicked the wrong Reply
>> button the first time...)
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I understand your concern, but I don't consider it an issue.
>>
>> There is a downside to your proposal compared to mine, which is that
>> it only allows a specific value to one (!) DE. For example, with mine,
>> you could have:
>>
>> Name=Some Generic Name
>> Specific-KDE-Name=Name in KDE only
>> Specific-GNOME-Name=Name in GNOME only
>> Specific-XFCE-Name=Name in XFCE only
>
> Sorry for stepping in here, but are you really discussing to present
> the users different names for applications (not the bins, but we're
> talking about joe) under different circumstances so if i'd tell a user
> to run "foo" he won't be able cause it's called "bar" in his DE?
>
> The .desktop file already knows a name and a generic name and the
> representation (aka "runner") could be smart enought to detect
> pseudo doublettes and use the generic name by default and attach the
> non generic name  (or, as LLOD the binary) for clarification if
> necessary or just to be "honest".
>
> If the runner isn't smart enough to avoid presenting clashes to the
> user, that's a runner bug - no matter what caused it in this particular
> case.
>
> You're currently only talking about solutions covering LANG=C but you
> cannot possibly expect translators to avoid such clashes in their
> translations if the application name does not contain some trademark.
> Eg. "system settings" as well as "configuration center" could easily
> end up as "Systemeinstellungen" in German - simply cause it's (iirc -
> bee a long time) the winblows term - some languages might not even
> leave any options in some cases.
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas
>