Oh well...

[Vadim Plessky]

On Monday 18 November 2002 6:26 pm, Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
|  Michael Brade wrote:
|  > Hi,
|  >
|  > the kcontrol icon changed again---however, now I don't think any user
|  > will find it anymore. Last time I wrote it would be better to reduce the
|  > usage of black in favor of green, now the opposite happened. Can anyone
|  > tell me why?? Just have a look at the attached screenie and tell me if
|  > you find the konsole and kcontrol icon at first sight.
|  >
|  > Artists: why don't you have a look at kcontrol itself? Just start it and
|  > scale the big kcontrol logo down, it's perfect already IMHO.
|  >
|  > Ciao,
|
|  While I am not current any more with CVS (my compilation is 5 days old
| now, I have been showing it at "LinuxDay.at" in Dornbirn/Austria at the
| weekend), I am still quite unhappy with the new icons in terms of
| usability. (BTW, I received much of the same feedback to this issue(s) as I
| had reported back from the LinuxWorldExpo presentations -- it is a great
| pity that the icon designers don't seem to have been confronted with a lot
| of direc user feedback lately...).
|
|  Here are some thoughts on the matter, which won't change a thing at the
| moment but which might be considered for future work:
|
|  * I once read a few very well worded paragraphs (written by tackat) on
|     icon design, arguing that simplicity, recognizability and
| distinctivness are key to a good icon set.

I can just sign these words, too.

|
|  * I thought that most icons (designed by tackat?) in past default KDE
|     installations met these requirements.
|
|  * I think that most icons (designed by tackat?) in the current default
|     KDE CVS installation don't meet that requirement any more: :-\
|      --> simplicity is gone -- most icons now are multi-color,
| multi-object, multi-meaning type of *paintings*

There is no problem with "multi-color" or "multi-object" icons.
Problem is *how* colors used ;-)

>From my understanding, many of Crystal icons use gradients for stroke (path 
surrounding internal part of object).
This is 'no-no' for icon being rednered at 32x32 or 48x48 size.
Such nifty effect can look well on 128x128 icon, but at smaller sizes:
* edges are disappearing (that's my major concern over existing Crystal 
implementation)
* due to resizing effect and gradients for strokes, colors are blurring into 
each other, so you get terrible mixture of unpleasant colors.

Besides, color schemes used in Crystal ar enot consistant from icon to icon.
I don't know why authors choosed such way.
Even if you don't use extrenal CSS stylesheet (which is the best way to go, 
IMO, but yes - that's not supported by 'ksvgtopng' renderer), you can copy 
gradients and colors from one drawings to another.
Well, I am not very familiar with Adobe Illustrator (which Crystal authors 
use), but that's definitly posisble with Sodipodi.


|      --> recognizability is gone -- most icons for the same apps look very
|          different to their pre-decessors

Yep, I agree.

|      --> distinctiveness is gone -- most icons look too similar from a
| little "farer" away and still, after weeks and weeks of working with them,
| I can't target any of the most-used ones "without thinking" (this also goes
| for the iconified windows in minimized in kicker: konsole, konqueror,
| kcontrol,...)

Yes, that's correct.

|
|  This new all-blue-icon-theme makes it very hard to recognize some of the
| most important symbols by their pre-dominant color.
|
|  * Maybe (be)for(e) the next release icon designers should study some
|     scientific research results on human sense organ recognition patterns?

Well, qustion is what we are going to do about current release?
I think releasing KDE 3.1 with Crystal icons "as is" can create PR & User 
Perception nightmare.
So far, only KDE developers expressed their concerns.  And I believe most of 
us "got used" to Crystal icons, more or less.
Now imagine typical KDE users, who upgrades. And what does he has? Something 
*not very clear*.
I just imagine that we get some kinds of comments like:  "KDE developers 
bloated all the things again".  

BTW: have someone noticied that many parts of Crystal is just rip of Windows 
XP icons?
I don't have WinXP installed, but when several people reported/suggested this, 
I visited www.microsoft.com and checked Win XP page.
Same annoying green color for buttons, same ideas for may icons.
Or am I the only person who thinks this is a problem?

|
|  * Maybe (be)for(e) the next release the default icon theme should be
|     committed well before the first release candidate and then be modified
|     according to user feedback?
|

What about Crystal authors?
Can they express their opinion here?
Why we should discuss all the things in some kind of vacuum, without getting 
exact answers?..

|  Bottom line: keramik is good for artists' eyes and minds -- it is bad for
|  usability. The only icon I still recognize immediately is the
| "KHelpcenter" one (which still is a red-and-white lifebelt, not [yet?]
| fallen prey to the keramik-ization of our blue-loving icon designers...)
|
|  Ciao,
|  Kurt

-- 

Vadim Plessky
SVG Icons
http://svgicons.sourceforge.net
My KDE page
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/