Invent/gitlab, issues and bugzilla

[Luigi Toscano]

Bhushan Shah ha scritto:
> Everyone, let's take a step back.
> 
> Original discussion was, if project X can use gitlab issues instead of
> bugzilla? If the developers/maintainers prefer?
> 
> Potential arguments to which are either,
> 
> - No they can't because we forbid it in our manifesto or code of conduct
>   or policies
> - No they can't because it makes life of other developer harder
> - No they can't because it makes life of other user harder
> 
> As we stand neither of this arguments apply ... We have no written point
> in KDE manifesto which allows community to force a developer tool of
> their choice on new or existing project, as long as tool or service is
> hosted within KDE infrastructure and doesn't cost sysadmins or community
> resources/time maintaining that service. It is important have this
> freedom, otherwise next day someone can come up with idea that all
> projects should use cmake or autotools or qmake, because all of KDE
> community should be using same buildsystem.

Sorry, but We did exactly this. We all switched to git for code. We all
de-facto switched to CMake for Qt-based projects, whenever is possible. And
there are good reasons for that.

> 
> - Gitlab is hosted on KDE infrastructure and each KDE contributors can
>   access the service using their KDE identity account.
> - Gitlab service is/will be actively maintained by KDE sysadmin team and
>   using it as bugzilla is not going to cost KDE e.V. any extra money.
> 
> If developer/maintainer collectively thinks that using gitlab as bug
> tracker makes their life easier instead of depending on bugzilla I don't
> understand why other developers would have a problem with that? It's not
> making their life difficult at all if they want to contribute, as
> mentioned in earlier point Gitlab is accessible to all users and
> developers.

It is important for the rest of the community, as I mentioned earlier (see:
consistency, and tooling). That's it.

> As for users, let users decide? I mean we can't speak for all of our
> userbase confidently that they love bugzilla and will stop reporting
> bugs for other components if certain other project/application starts
> using Gitlab for bugtracking, can either of you?

Users don't decide where to report bugs: they follow the instructions (I can
report countless of request of "where can I report this").
Having two places makes things confusing.


> 
> On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 08:37:34PM +0200, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
>> Besides, it's already too easy to make a bug report. Getting more bug
>> reports is not a priority for me; at this I would prefer to have less
>> interaction between developers and users than more, because we're
>> going crazy right now.
> 
> This is your personal opinion.
> 
>> And that's the important thing. Bugzilla is a developer tool, not a
>> user tool. We must have easy tools to triage, query, sort, modify sets
>> of reports. Bugzilla isn't perfect for that either, but the options
>> gitlab gives for handling issues are so limited.
> 
> If bugzilla is developer tool, gitlab is also developer tool, let
> developer or maintainer decide how to best use it.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 10:20:34AM +0200, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
>> On the other hand, we also need to use tools that make our work
>> possible. Me being able to do my work, my developers being able to do
>> their work is also important. These tools are not for marketing, they
>> are for making the development process go better. And not just for
>> newcomers, but also for the people actually shouldering the load of
>> triaging ~150 reports a month.
> 
> If Kaidan, Calindori or Plasma Mobile uses the Gitlab for issue reporting
> because of either a) choice of maintainer or b) choice of specific
> sub-community, that decision doesn't affect krita, okular or other KDE
> applications.

It does, as a global community.

> 
>> I disagree. I'm fine with modernizing bugzilla to bugzilla 6. But
>> gitlab's issues feature is not powerful enough to handle the amound of
>> bug reports I have to handle. In other words, I cannot do my work with
>> gitlab's issues feature. It might look more modern, but it just
>> doesn't have the power. 
> 
> This is your personal opinion.

Just like yours.



> 
> On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 10:39:15AM +0200, Christoph Cullmann wrote:
>> In our company we multiple times reviewed bug trackers (for migrating
>> from Bugzilla), but none actually had a good enough feature set to be
>> considered, beside perhaps Jira (which is non-free/open).
>>
>> I would wait for the Bugzilla 6 release to judge if the UI arrives in
>> the 21th century before making any decisions what to use. Just that
>> GitLab is more modern doesn't give it all the features one needs.
> 
> This is your personal opinion.

Do you mean that you don't want to evaluate the tools? Interesting.

> 
> In general, I respect everyone's personal opinion that bugzilla at
> moment superior to the gitlab issues, but at same time I also want to
> respect other developers opinion/choices as long as they abide by the
> KDE manifesto written and supported by our community.

Let's go everyone's decide for themselves. Nice.

-- 
Luigi