[kde-community] Official KDE mirror on github

[Laszlo Papp]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Vishesh Handa <me at vhanda.in> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Boudewijn Rempt <boud at valdyas.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Vishesh Handa wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Boudewijn Rempt <boud at valdyas.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Vishesh Handa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So if project X which is part of KDE also relies on GitHub, but in no
>>>>> way recommends it, that will alienate people?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's not the issue: the issue is having our official Github mirror
>>>> allowing a git-hub based workflow. That should not be possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>>
>> In the very first place because that is what we agreed upon when setting
>> up this mirror. In the second place, because we need to show a consistent
>> face, as a community. In the third place, because by accepting pull
>> requests,
>> you're putting a load on other people in the KDE community to do so as
>> well, whether or not they want to.
>
> I don't see agreement on that fact considering some of the
> participants of GitHub do utilize its features.
>
> Other members from the KDE community are welcome to ignore the
> alternatives. Just as they do not have access to my personal inbox
> where much corresponse often happens, and patches are discussed.
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>> As
>>>> Ivan said, if a project maintainer is really set on selling their
>>>> soul, then by all means use a private, personal, not-officially-KDE
>>>> github thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> * There is nothing to do with selling your soul.
>>
>>
>> If _you_ want to use an official KDE thing to promote the use of non-free
>> software, you're not just "selling your own soul", you're compromising
>> KDE's message.
>
> I'm not promoting its usage. I'm advocating for utilizing its
> resources in addition to our own. Just as we utilize other proprietary
> platforms (windows, and mac) to improve KDE. No one is advocating
> GitHub.
>
>>  And so handling github pull requests to KDE's official
>> mirror's repos instead of telling people to use the proper channels is
>> breaking up the consistent message we want to convey, and it puts a load
>> on other people, who don't want to handle those pull requests: they now
>> have to explain why they are grumpy bastarts who don't do what nice-guy-you
>> does do.
>
> Please remember this was to be an opt-in basis. Not for all projects.
>
> About being a grumpy bastard, we already have to deal with issues like
> that on our bug tracker - "Oh! But that other project in KDE
> implemented my stupid wish request or didn't close my bug, why are you
> so unreasonable?"

Sure, Vishesh.

You are right that there are unfortunate posts like that. I still
believe that it ought not to be the excuse for further increasing the
ratio.

>>
>> So, if _you_ accept pull requests to a repo in the KDE official mirror, you
>> are making decisions for others, and are making other people do things.
>>
>
> No I'm not.
>
> Boud, you're shipping Krita on Windows. You're uploading them on the
> KDE official website, you're thereby making me pay for Windows if I
> want to test it and contribute to the project, you are making
> decisions for others.
>
> Does this argument really hold?

I must admit that you have a valid point in there with Windows being a
bit different.

On the other hand, Windows plays a significant role in the world for end users.

Is github really comparable to it? My humble guess would be that
github is less prevalent for our end users. Even for development, it
does not seem to be crucial at this point in time, at least, I
believe. I really hope that it will remain this way and KDE can be a
good factor to challenge things with github with open alternatives.
Challenging Windows as an operating system that has been around for so
long would be quite a bit of journey, wouldn't it? :-)

>>> Each of us has
>>> different goals, and we lie on different edges of the spectrum w.r.t
>>> Free software. We need all kinds of people.
>>
>>
>> That's fine, but don't use KDE's external interface to confuse the issue.
>> We tell the world, this our workflow, this is what we support, this is
>> why. Don't compromise that message because you want to be a nice, helpful
>> fellow.
>
> I really don't understand this mantra of pushing back everyone else
> who doesn't have the exact ideals we do. "If you want to work with us,
> you must do so in exactly our terms". Great! Now they won't work with
> us.

It is always difficult to manage a community, especially a big one
like this. There happens to be agreements and disagreements.
Unfortunately, we cannot please everyone, can we. It is a shame if
someone does not work with KDE, but it is inevitable. There will
always be people for not liking one thing or another. It is not to say
that KDE is bad and unpopular or anything; nothing close to that;
quite the contrary! :)

> --
> Vishesh Handa
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