[kde-community] Plasmoids and Apps - was - Re: Applications in KDE Generation 5

Aaron J. Seigo aseigo at kde.org
Thu Jan 16 15:27:36 UTC 2014

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 16:09:03 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> Hi Aaron,
> On Thursday, January 16, 2014 13:24:51 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > > That particular statement has been used for years and I’ve
> > > > patiently corrected it time and again, and it is still used to justify
> > > > things like “don’t force this down our throat”. That is not fair play.
> > > 
> > > Just to point out the obvious, while it might be human to lose patience,
> > > it's not OK, and certainly not helpful.
> > 
> > After literally years of this, it is not a matter of “keeping one’s
> > patience”.  I have kept my patience and tried to work through these issues
> > over the course of some 6 years now. I think that is reasonable beyond
> > reasonable, and I resent you asking the person who says “This has made me
> > feel uncomfortable” to sit on it. It’s rather close to the ”blame the
> > victim” pattern.
> Had you said exactly that ("This has made me feel uncomfortable”), it would
> have been completely fine. Instead you implied ignorance and ill-intent.
> This makes all the difference.

Let me quote to you from my own email then:

"As the person who came up with and used to maintain 
this part of KDE, It makes me feel like you think I’ve been wandering around 
forcing people to do things they don’t want to and that makes me feel very 

As you can see, I did indeed say exactly “that makes me feel very 

Furthermore, I was not under the impression there was any ill-intent. That is 
something you read into what I wrote, for whatever reason.

I’ve tried to make it clear that I do not see ill-intent, but a double 
standard in action and an institutionalized acceptance of negative personal 
response depending on the source and recipient. I accept that you read into 
what I wrote something I did not intend, but now could you return that favor 
and accept that this I do not actually see ill-intent here?

As for implying ignorance: I did not imply it, I stated it openly. I will 
freely admit that using that precise word probably is born of frustration with 
a six year background story: after patiently correcting the same rubbish 
within your own community to no effect, I don’t know how else to help people 
understand that the meme in question is not an opinion, but a factual error.  

The dictionary definition of ignorance is this:

	the state or fact of being ignorant :  lack of knowledge, education, or 

If I had said Albert was stupid (which he is not), that would have been 
something rather different: a statement (insult, even) about the person 
himself. Ignorance is an observation of state, at least when offered non-

Let me offer an example: I am ignorant about Poppler (to take an example); by 
contrast, Albert  knows quite a bit about Poppler. I would hope that in a 
conversation where Poppler comes up that I would not make sweeping statements 
without fact checking them. Doing so would be speaking out of ignorance.

If you wish to discuss the rest of you email, we can do so face to face 
(virtually, e.g. on G+ hangouts)

Aaron J. Seigo

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