[Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list

Wed Jun 8 14:23:19 UTC 2016

Hello Jude,

there are several ways of getting accessibility in KDE and Plasma improved. I 
would recommend starting with a distribution that is accessible and installing 
two desktops in parallel - get some Gnome or Unity and install the kde desktop 
at the same time.
This way you should end up with a working login manager and there you can 
choose which system to log in to. Being able to test individual applications 
in the working environment is probably an advantage, although applications 
should generally work in either environment.
There is one caviat: when using different styles, applications may behave 
differently depending on the desktop environment in use.

Once you have the ability to log in to Plasma with a system that has a screen 
reader installed and ready, it should in theory be able to activate Orca - on 
recent Plasma releases it should activate using the same shortcut as in Gnome 
sessions. I wouldn't be surprised if this got broken again - I'm not sure.
You may need sighted assistance - check in System Settings, Desktop Behavior, 
Accessibility. There is a checkbox to enable Orca in the Screen Reader tab.

Assuming that works, some parts of Plasma should be accessible, but there is 
much left to be desired - the system tray and network config is for example 
completely inaccessible as far as I know - mostly due to keyboard shortcuts 
and missing hints.

I don't usually find the time to really work on these issues, but good reports 
and a defined plan of what is the most burning stuff to fix would certainly be 
helpful. It's also an option to blog about the progress or lack thereof and 
hope to get some more people involved.

Frederik

On onsdag 11. mai 2016 16.11.11 CEST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Right now, to the best of my knowledge no kde-plasma install iso exists
> with orca also already on it.  If I find an iso like that, I'll be sure
> to make sure kaccessible is also installed since orca is lately having
> some trouble with some of the newer qt stuff.  I'm retired now so have
> time to do bug testing so could help out.  It's possible a sighted
> friend I have could build me an iso and mail it to me when he has time.
> He isn't retired yet.
> 
> On Wed, 11 May 2016, Jeremy Whiting wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 11:33:31
> > From: Jeremy Whiting <jpwhiting at kde.org>
> > To: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> > Cc: kde-accessibility at kde.org
> > Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list
> > 
> > Jude,
> > 
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com> wrote:
> >> So kde didn't come up with its own screen reader, this is good to know.
> > 
> > Well some kde developers came up with kaccessible, which is a screen
> > reader that only works with Qt based applications. Orca seems to work
> > better since it can read the ui of both Qt based and GTK+ based
> > applications. Orca is supposed to "just work" with many applications,
> > however there may be some bugs in Qt itself or KDE libraries that give
> > it some trouble. I don't think it gets as much testing as it needs
> > either. It's a classic chicken and egg problem. Not enough people test
> > orca with kde/plasma, so bugs with that setup aren't reported as much
> > as bugs with other setups. Because it's not as well tested, there
> > aren't as many people trying it out either.
> > 
> >> What
> >> Apple did with VoiceOver in this context may be useful to describe.
> >> 
> >>  In 2008 I purchased a Mac Mini which turned out to have the older chips
> >>  in
> >> 
> >> it that would not upgrade beyond snow leopard.  It came with OSX10.4
> >> Tiger
> >> not installed.  I by myself hooked the computer up and tried to get it
> >> working not knowing the operating system was not already installed.  I
> >> was
> >> by myself at the time too.  I put one dvd in the combo drive and it got
> >> ejected promptly.  The package came with two dvd's so I was down to my
> >> last
> >> card.  I put the second DVD in the drive and it started spinning up.  I
> >> waited and suddenly VoiceOver came on and started asking questions which
> >> I
> >> answered with the keyboard.  When I finished I had to customize an
> >> operating system for accessibility I found a website for that later and
> >> got four years good use out of that computer until it was struck by
> >> lightning.  Such an experience has always been and I suspect will always
> >> be impossible with Microsoft Windows which is why I won't have it on any
> >> equipment I own and use; I can't reinstall it by myself on a bare metal
> >> machine.  What triggered VoiceOver wasn't anything I did, VoiceOver got
> >> triggered because I didn't answer a question that appeared on the screen
> >> within an expected time interval.  I am curious, could an installation
> >> disk go out and get orca if needed install orca and activate it in the
> >> event a would-be installer failed to answer a question within an
> >> expected time interval?
> > 
> > I was surprised the last time I installed debian that there was an
> > install option in the bootup to install with speech help. It was
> > terminal based, probably using speakup, but worked pretty well. I
> > can't remember if it ended up with a gui environment at the end or
> > not, but probably could.
> > 
> > BR,
> > Jeremy
> > 
> >> On Tue, 10 May 2016, Jeremy Whiting wrote:
> >>> Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 16:45:09
> >>> From: Jeremy Whiting <jpwhiting at kde.org>
> >>> To: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> >>> Cc: kde-accessibility at kde.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Jude,
> >>> 
> >>> I hate to disappoint but here's the reality. Jovie isn't a
> >>> screenreader so couldn't be used to make it so a blind person could
> >>> use a kde/plasma desktop out of the box. To do that you would need a
> >>> distribution with kde/plasma and also orca screen reader. I haven't
> >>> heard of such a distribution, but it should be possible.
> >>> 
> >>> thanks,
> >>> Jeremy
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel at panix.com>
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a
> >>>> remote
> >>>> server and have been totally blind from birth.
> >>>> 
> >>>> My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has
> >>>> built
> >>>> an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install
> >>>> that
> >>>> distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward.  This
> >>>> happens
> >>>> several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of
> >>>> the
> >>>> kde
> >>>> community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of
> >>>> competition.
> >>>> From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may
> >>>> be
> >>>> ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to
> >>>> get
> >>>> it done since 2012.  Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro
> >>>> with
> >>>> kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup
> >>>> access
> >>>> got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> kde-accessibility mailing list
> >>>> kde-accessibility at kde.org
> >>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility
> >> 
> >> --