How to handle KDE not respecting YOUR distros requirements?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:49:05 PM CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Also what amount of adaption work do you want to put to downstream users of
> Plasma? When is a downstream user important enough to support it out of the
> box.
> 
> I bet you do not intend to request having logind API available on Windows or
> on Mac OS X for example? And you neither ask Microsoft nor Apple to
> implement it for you? There you support other ways out of the box, there
> upstream adapts to the platform and not the other way around.

Plasma is neither available for OSX nor for Windows. The Plasma team does not 
have any plans to support these platforms. They are considered outside the 
scope, Plasma only targets platforms not already having a dedicated desktop 
shell.

Given that I have problems understanding your example as it just does not 
apply to Plasma.
> 
> But then, you have people doing that, and so this is the invitation for
> anyone who does not want to use systemd on Linux or BSD to be such an
> upstream developer caring about providing out of the box support for non
> systemd Unix systems. Cause as far as I gathered you currently simply do
> not have any people taking care of this.
> 
> So this is just about someone actually doing it. You allow it as much as I
> gathered. So if someone steps up there can be support.
> 
> I just wanted to point out that "you downstream have to adapt" can send a
> message of arrogance like "you are not important enough for us to adapt to
> you" that is not very well received and basically finger points the
> responsibility to someone else. I´d carefully take care of sending a
> different message than that which can be "we would like to support you, but
> we don´t have any people using your distro who like to work with us
> upstream to develop and test what is needed". So it would start with
> actually listening to the needs of the downstream and taking them as given,
> as having good reasons, taking them serious and then work from there. 

Honestly I think we always sent out the message exactly like that. 
Unfortunately especially on the topic of systemd there is a lot of 
misunderstanding going on. People fear we depend on systemd when we start to 
optionally add a runtime dependency to logind. It's very difficult to argue on a 
sane ground when it comes to anything related to systemd. The users are angry, 
the packagers are angry, there is a lot of heat there. Bug reports go to 
slashdot, things like that.

> So
> are there any slackware people on this list?
> 
> Also an official decision on what platforms you support out of the box can
> at least give some clarification about what to expect. Like:
> 
> If its an unix we expect to have systemd like logind API available, unless
> you help us to implement support for something else.

you mean like for example: https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/10/
libinput-integration-in-kwinwayland/ ;-)

Yes, that's certainly something which would make sense for Plasma. For all of 
KDE: we probably are not able to come up with it or it would be confusing.

Cheers
Martin
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