Digikam raw files and darktable

[Juan Jose Casafranca]

Currently, DT allows to duplicate a "raw file". What this does is to
duplicate the xmp file where the history is stored.

So what Im trying to do is to load this xmps, generate two views in DK
where each of them have the correct thumbnail and preview.

There is nothing to be done in DT, although some kind of revision history
as the one used in git will be marbelous :-)

El 8 ene. 2017 2:49, "HaJo Schatz" <hajo at hajo.net> escribió:

isn't that more of a DT issue first - some sort of stack branching, a la
revision control including a preview per branch? Or export, for that matter
;)

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 at 09:40, Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thats a way of doing things. I usually do different editions and I dont
> export any of them at least I need to send them somewhere. Thats why I need
> to see the different views for the different xmps :-)
>
> El 8 ene. 2017 2:35, "HaJo Schatz" <hajo at hajo.net> escribió:
>
> I usually do a "base development" of each RAW. then export this. Then I
> have some pre-set styles I might apply, e.g. a specific B/W style. That
> goes on top of my base development. I'd like to have JPEGs exported at both
> steps and grouped properly, then my world would be fine :)
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 at 09:30, Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I don't know about grouping. Each time I have tried to use DK as my
> management software I quit because I can't update the thumbnails...
>
> If you develop your edits as JPEG because you have several of them, how do
> you later continue developing one of them because you want to do something
> else from that point? If you modify the history to do a completely
> different edit, you lose the other. If you duplicate in DT your image, you
> cant see both files in DK. If you duplicate the whole raw file so you can
> see it in DK, you don't know which one is each because thumbnails are
> outdated and don't represent what the editor has done with the raw file.
>
> That's why I want a way to update thumbnails and previews with the current
> editing history...
>
> 2017-01-08 2:20 GMT+01:00 HaJo Schatz <hajo at hajo.net>:
>
> Just saw this now and have been far far away from DK & DT for a long time,
> so sorry if I speak outdated:
>
> I tried to combine both for my workflow before, with limited success. What
> I wished for back then was a proper solution in DK for grouping. I wouldn't
> mind developing my edits into JPEGs (actually want to, since I may have
> multiple edits as someone said earlier). In the past DK didn't group them
> well, that's where I had issues. If grouping is working well now I think
> the preview topic is not really a serious shortcoming, no?
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 at 01:27, Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Could you look if there is anyway to ask darktable for an image through
> DBus? The image should be returned without been saved in disk.
> (As a char* for example).
>
> Right now I'm trying to understand how digikam asks for the thumbnails and
> for the preview images so I can ask for them when it's necessary.
>
> 2017-01-07 18:20 GMT+01:00 Andrey Goreev <aegoreev at gmail.com>:
>
> I agree 100%. I am willing to help if needed
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>
> Date: 2017-01-07 9:30 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: digiKam - Home Manage your photographs as a professional with the
> power of open source <digikam-users at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: Digikam raw files and darktable
>
> Yes, I don't want digikam developers to do this. I understand that they
> have their own roadmap. Opensource strength is the possibility for any user
> to propose changes and implement them if they know how to do it :-)
>
> I'm already coding a kind of very stupid version of what I want, just to
> play around with it and see how things can be done. But I must say that it
> looks pretty simple. This first toy code is just calling darktable-cli,
> saving an image to disk and loading it as a thubnail. Its just to see how
> things could be done afterwards :-)
>
> I also think the DBus option is the best one, although it's only Linux
> available so I will have a look at it
>
> 2017-01-07 17:25 GMT+01:00 Andrey Goreev <aegoreev at gmail.com>:
>
> We definitely don't want digikam developers to do any extra work for that.
> They have their roadmap and want to stay on it. What we want from them is
> to tell us how could importing thumbnails from darktable to digikam be done
> with absolute minimal changes in the digikam code. Am I correct ?
>
> Also, if the Linux only solution (DBus) is the simplest solution I think
> we should stick to it. I am actually a windows user and there is no
> darktable version for Windows so I created a designated virtual machine
> (ubuntu studio) and do all DAM and photo / video processing there. The
> pictures folder can be accessed from both Windows and Linux so there is
> nothing that needs to be done twice. Any changes can be seen in any OS.
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>
> Date: 2017-01-07 8:59 AM (GMT-07:00)
> To: digiKam - Home Manage your photographs as a professional with the
> power of open source <digikam-users at kde.org>
> Subject: Re: Digikam raw files and darktable
>
>
>
> 2017-01-07 16:22 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <caulier.gilles at gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> 2017-01-07 15:41 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>:
>
> On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:25:43 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:
>
>
> > 2017-01-07 15:22 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com>:
>
>
> > > On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:14:09 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:
>
>
> > > > 2017-01-07 15:08 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <jjcasmar at gmail.com
> >:
>
>
> > > > > On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:03:38 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:
>
>
> > > > > > As i explain before, ALL thumbnails generated by digiKam are
> stored
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > in a
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > > > dedicated database (sqlite or Mysql).
>
>
> > > > > >
>
>
> > > > > > The thumbnails are stored using wavelets compression format PGF
> to
>
>
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > > optimize
>
>
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > > > space. In older DK version (3 for ex), we use FreeDesktop way
> with
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > PNG
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > > > which explode storage for huge collection and take a while to
> store
>
>
> > > > > > thumbnails files. Also FreeDesktop recommendations is only
> limited
>
>
> > > > > > to
>
>
> > > > > > 256x256, which is not enough for Hdpi screen (digiKam can store
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > 512x512
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > > and
>
>
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > > > perhaps more in the future with 8K screen).
>
>
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > > Okay. But there is no need to change anything in DK for storing
>
>
> > > > > thumbnails.
>
>
> > > > > The only thing needed is to change the way thumbnails are generated
>
>
> > > > > and
>
>
> > > > > updated for raw files.
>
>
> > > > >
>
>
> > > > > Simply, when DK finds a new raw file, instead of loading the
> embedded
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > jpg
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > > file,
>
>
> > > > > simply call the raw processor and generate the new file. And when
> the
>
>
> > > > > thumbnail
>
>
> > > > > is dirty (as I explained before), regenerate the thumbnail.
>
>
> > > >
>
>
> > > > But this is already the case. We use already a raw decoder named
> libraw
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > to
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > process RAW thumbnails. We will not using another one... Stop to
> puzzle
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > the
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > > code
>
>
> > > >
>
>
> > > > Gilles Caulier
>
>
> > >
>
>
> > > So you are telling me that if we want to process a raw file and manage
> a
>
>
> > > library with DK, we have to stay with the simply DK raw processor
> instead
>
>
> > > of
>
>
> > > using a much more powerful one like darktable? Do you really think that
>
>
> > > people
>
>
> > > out there use the DK raw processor to process their images?
>
>
> >
>
>
> > But digiKam is not DarkTable.  The way to mix both cannot be done. This
> is
>
>
> > 2 different applications, one written in Qt other one in GTK...
>
>
> >
>
>
> > The goal currently in DK is to stabilize the code, reduce dependencies,
>
>
> > improve port to non Linux. We have plenty of jobs to do, DarkTable is
> not a
>
>
> > priority for the moment.
>
>
> >
>
>
> > Gilles Caulier
>
>
>
>
>
> I know that they are two different apps. I dont understand why GTK and Qt
> is
>
>
> even a question here. I'm not saying to add DT as a depency for DK, just
> let
>
>
> the user decide which raw processor uses.
>
>
> But Raw processor from DT is not the same than DK as i know. Changing Raw
> processor in digiKam by DT one is as to add DT dependencies to DK.  No way
> here...
>
>
> I'm not asking to change the raw processor. Just asking to allow the user
> which raw processor wants to use. If the user selects to use DT, simply
> make him enter the DT executable which will be called when the raw file
> must be processed. No dependency needed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As I said, I can try to develop this by myself, I'm not asking any
> dedicated
>
>
> DK developer to do it... What I only need is a little guideline on how the
>
>
> thumbnails are generated, how they are stored in the database and some
> other
>
>
> stuff for letting the user choose which processor wants to choose.
>
>
> 2 possibilities :
>
> 1/ use DBus to ping digiKam core about thumbnails changed externally. Only
> Linux solution.
>
> 2/ use XMP sidecar to store a local path to new thumbnails processed into
> DT XMP namespace. I don't like this too much by at least it store the
> minimum to XMP.
>
> 3/ store wavelets compressed preview in XMP sidecar to
> Iptc.Application2.Preview
>
> 4/ use a thumbnail sidecar file near RAW file as .thumb. I see this
> solution already used under Windows, but i don't remember which application
> exactly. I know that Canon camera do it also. It's a simple JPEG file with
> metadata This way will duplicata data of course.
>
> Gilles Caulier
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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