Introduction of a "type mode" and an "unicode mode" of input

Sun Jul 3 10:28:28 BST 2016

On 3 July 2016 at 02:16, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
as a
>
> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>
> "Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
property of operating systems."
>
> It's easy to install fonts to the OS, at least in Windows, and can be one
by any application or by the user. Honestly, I've never done it on Windows
or Mac though.
>
> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts for
that range of unicode. "
>
> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I understand you
properly.
>
> OSs may come with fonts for Japanese or Cyrillic but not all languages
and scripts. Either OSs or applications should come with: all free
script-specific fonts and all free Unicode fonts.
>
> My idea was to:
>
> Add the box
>
> “Choose unicode range” in the application

On a GUI level: There's KDE GUI for that (there are many equivalents):
https://utils.kde.org/projects/kcharselect/

It's not the input method so someone needs to turn that input method. As
you can see in the KCharSelect app, selection of unicode range is a
function of given font - different ranges are supported by different fonts.

I don't find the
“Choose unicode range” message easy to understand by the users. I'd not
accept it if someone proposes it in apps other than font editors or the
advanced character selector such as KCharSelect because such feature does
not belong to general purpose apps. “Choose unicode range” is not a
question to user even.
“Choose language/font” is.

Even if the proposed GUI was added (to each of the hundreds input boxes of
Calligra?) then the user won't be able to *enter* the characters using
keyboard because "unicode ranges" don't have mandatory support in input
systems. This is why you see mouse selection input in KCharSelect - the
input box won't work for you if you want to input Korean letters unless you
install a Hangul input method.

So office apps ask for something else: for the language. Of course it won't
change input method or even fonts. It's independent. If you have not
installed Hangul, setting Korean language in Calligra won't give you much -
e.g. you will be still inserting Latin characters each just "marked" in
Korean language.

Worse, even if you have all in place: input methods, font name set in given
documents, properly encoded unicode sequences in your documents, it won't
be automatically available the same way on your collegue's computer. She
needs to have the font installed. You can legally embed only given fonts.
Substitutes do not 100% work (look at problems people have when dealing
with current MS fonts that are limited to using on licensed Windows).
I'd add more challenges to the list.

So the support for given "languages" have to be configured, tested (in case
of FOSS it can be with your help, closed OSes are free to ignore anything
they want) and this is a job of OS distributors and the OS installer.
Example for the latter:

https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/5/html-single/International_Language_Support_Guide/#Installing_and_supporting_languages-Adding_language_support_after_installation

 Hope this helps.

>
> Package free fonts that serve any unicode range and all free unicode fonts
>
> Eventually, the second may be served by the OS, but the first has to be,
and the second can be started by the application.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Samiur
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:37, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode,
such as a
>> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>>
>> Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
>> property of operating systems.
>>
>> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
>> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>> for that range of unicode. "
>>
>> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
>> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I
>> understand you properly.
>>
>> If there's something missing a proper address to send requests is 1.
>> operating system vendors (even if you mean Linux) and 2. projects that
>> work on fonts (if you mean about free fonts). Calligra as a project
>> does not and should not ship general purpose fonts as such if they are
>> part of the OS.
>> At least two classes of exceptions are:
>> - we have dedicated fonts for example for music notation in a Music
>> Shape or specific formula/math symbols
>> - to make sure fonts *normally* available in modern free operating
>> systems are also available on Windows or Mac, the files (if it's 100%
>> legal) may be packaged with Calligra apps to overcome the misfeature
>>
>> Contributions to such packaging is of course welcome. I've heard there
>> are efforts to package Calligra 3 app(s) on non-Linux. It's typical
>> that fixes to this area come from the interested parties able to try
>> real/specific use cases.
>>
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What I see is that if it's a practice to include all free unicode
fonts in
>> >> an office suite, in order to use them commonly, all office suites,
even
>> >> operating systems, must come with them. But it's a good practice to
start
>> >> on. Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for
Western
>> >> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
for
>> >> that range of unicode. What I suggest is to include all free unicode
fonts
>> >> in Calligra, to cater to users of all scripts and languages.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org>
wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:11, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Jaroslaw wrote: "If so, as such place for its implementation isn't
at
>> >>> > Calligra level but at a computer operating system's level, even
above
>> >>> > Qt
>> >>> > itself."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > You can select to type in your keyboard, by selecting your
keyboard in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > OS, but usually you need to buy or maybe possibly download a font
for
>> >>> > your
>> >>> > language or script. The benefit of a "unicode mode" as an input
mode in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > office app is that you don't need to buy or download that font.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Camilla wrote: "we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific
>> >>> > charactes
>> >>> > from any unicode range"
>> >>> >
>> >>> > But you can't actually "type" using those characters that you can
>> >>> > choose as
>> >>> > special characters.
>> >>>
>> >>> What special characters do you mean?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Users should select an unicode range, such as Greek or Cyrillic,"
>> >>>
>> >>> To avoid mixing separate things: input methods, unicode
representation
>> >>> and file formats,
>> >>> please let me mention that:
>> >>>
>> >>> - language and font is an attribute of character in ODF and MSOOXML
>> >>> and older MS formats, all that is specified and not subject to change
>> >>> (and especially a change here instead of change in input method would
>> >>> be the least likely approved)
>> >>>
>> >>> - the modes of input is separate from application; applications
>> >>> receive ready to interpret logical input events prepared by the input
>> >>> method based on lower level events (key, voice, whatever); for
example
>> >>> there were times when I've been using Hangul for testing of input
>> >>> methods; given input method just composed entire syllables out of
>> >>> atomic key strokes - apps have never "seen" separate key strokes,
only
>> >>> syllables, each having own number in the Unicode standard. This is
why
>> >>> I think that whatever you design like two boxes of input, this
belongs
>> >>> to the outside of application, to the input method system
>> >>>
>> >>> - fonts: separate topic again, their *cost* and so on - it can be all
>> >>> addressed by working on libre implementation of fonts that given
>> >>> nations/cultures need; that's a proper level of activity
>> >>>
>> >>> (if I understand correctly)
>> >>>
>> >>> Finally I think an animation or mockup of your proposed method would
>> >>> increase chances to find more interest.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Camille also wrote: "yes it is true that the font used to show the
text
>> >>> > has
>> >>> > to support the script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist
already."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A few unicode fonts do exist but only Arial Unicode MS commonly
comes
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > Windows, I don't know what Linux makes available. The best way to
use
>> >>> > them,
>> >>> > as I see it, is to implement the "unicode mode" of input in the
office
>> >>> > applications, with the two boxes "choose unicodfoe range" and
"choose
>> >>> > unicode font," in which you first specify which range you are
typing
>> >>> > it, and
>> >>> > then choose from a number of fonts that support that range.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Camilla Boemann <cbo at boemann.dk>
wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Hi
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I don't  understand this either.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 1) all text in calligra is unicode
>> >>> >> 2) we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific charactes
from
>> >>> >> any
>> >>> >> unicode range
>> >>> >> 3) yes it is true that the font used to show the text has to
support
>> >>> >> the
>> >>> >> script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist already
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Saturday 02 July 2016 15:13:03 Huxshathra Theudanaz wrote:
>> >>> >> > A distinction between two types of input, a "type mode" and an
>> >>> >> > "unicode
>> >>> >> > mode" in all Calligra applications. In "unicode mode," there
should
>> >>> >> > be
>> >>> >> > two
>> >>> >> > boxes, one that asks to "choose unicodfoe range" and the other
that
>> >>> >> > asks
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > "choose unicode font." Users should select an unicode range,
such as
>> >>> >> > Greek
>> >>> >> > or Cyrillic, and then choose from a number of unicode fonts,
which
>> >>> >> > should
>> >>> >> > come with Calligra, that support that range.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > "Type mode" and "unicode mode" are different even now. If
someone
>> >>> >> > wants
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > type in non-Western European characters, they usually type in
"type
>> >>> >> > mode"
>> >>> >> > using fonts they buy. Another option is to type in an unicode
font
>> >>> >> > such
>> >>> >> > as
>> >>> >> > Arial Unicode MS, and the other unicode fonts are obscure. As
one
>> >>> >> > plus,
>> >>> >> > "unicode mode" of input will allow these typists to type in
their
>> >>> >> > language
>> >>> >> > or script without having at buy extra fonts.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Plus word processors and email clients and apps usually do
>> >>> >> > distinguish
>> >>> >> > between "type" and "unicode." This feature will fully allow
someone
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > type, create, and share documents in unicode.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> >> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>> >>>
>> >>> KDE:
>> >>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
>> >>> translators
>> >>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
>> >>> http://kde.org
>> >>> Calligra Suite:
>> >>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>> >>> Kexi:
>> >>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>> >>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>> >>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>>
>> KDE:
>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
translators
>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
http://kde.org
>> Calligra Suite:
>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>> Kexi:
>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>> _______________________________________________
>> calligra-devel mailing list
>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> calligra-devel mailing list
> calligra-devel at kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>

--
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
Calligra Suite:
: A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
Kexi:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek

-- 
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
Calligra Suite:
: A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
Kexi:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
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