Resetting metadata after new from template ?

Sat Feb 6 10:53:21 GMT 2016

On Thursday, February 04, 2016 01:55:19 PM Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> Hi Pierre,
> 
> Am Dienstag, 2. Februar 2016, 22:21:59 schrieb Pierre:
> > On Tuesday, February 02, 2016 02:08:53 PM Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
> > > On 1 February 2016 at 23:20, Pierre <pinaraf at pinaraf.info> wrote:
> > > > Hi
> > > > 
> > > > Right now, when we create a new empty document (at least for words),
> > > > like
> > > > any
> > > > other office suite, it is created from a template. But we currently 
lack
> > > > the
> > > > reset of some metadata from our templates, leading to funny 
situations…
> > 
> > For
> > 
> > > > instance, any document created by calligra using the A4 template is 
more
> > > > than
> > > > 7 years old :)
> > > > 
> > > > We have several possible fix :
> > > > - strip metadata from templates : we would still copy the metadata for
> > 
> > user
> > 
> > > > templates, including creation date, bad imho
> > > > - strip all metadata when creating a file from template : bad too, 
users
> > > > could
> > > > have specific metadata they don't want to lose
> > > > - override specific metadata like the creation date with sane values
> > > > 
> > > > Each one is very simple to implement, I just don't know which one is 
the
> > > > best.
> > > > I would go for the third option, but I don't have a list of metadata 
to
> > > > erase.
> > > > (we already override the generator BTW, but elsewhere in the saving
> > > > code)
> > > > 
> > > > Any thoughts on this ?
> > > 
> > > Very interesting finding
> > > , Pierre.
> > > If you ask me, the 3rd option looks best. Documenting the new behaviour,
> > > whatever it is, in the API docs, would be useful.
> > 
> > I just went through the ODF 1.2 spec part regarding metadata, I think we
> > should reset all the meta data defined in the spec except
> > "meta:user-defined"… And remember to fill in the meta:template with the
> > XLink to the source template.
> > If nobody disagrees nor sees anything hazardous in it, I'll implement 
that.

Hi 

> Happy to see you pick this up, I have found this annoying/funny as well :)
> 
> And I agree with & support your implementation plan basically, just a few
> modifications I would like to propose, read on.
> 
> IMHO the ODF spec has a flaw here WRT metadata and templates.
Not only for metadata, there is almost no template specification, but that is 
understandable if we consider ODF to be a document representation 
specification and not an office suite specification.

> There should be separate metadata for the actual template, and separate
> metadata for the to-be-generated document. The first can be used as usual,
> to know more about the template itself when managing templates, and the
> second can be used to preset metadata of the actual generated document, as
> it fits (e.g. keywords, language, or whatever user-defined keys are standard
> with the organisation using the documents). (someone should bring this up in
> the OASIS TC, what, me?)
> 
> But we have to deal now with what there is in the current spec. So I would
> agree that resetting/dumping most metadata on document creation makes sense.
> 
> For the pre-defined metadata (as in ODF 1.2, §4.3.2) I think the following
> metadata could be kept though, as they are about the document/content type
> and less about the template, or only really make sense with the actual
> document.
> So if they are present and set, they could be considered to target the
> created document, right?
> * <meta:auto-reload>
> * <meta:hyperlink-behaviour>
> * <dc:language>
> 
> For <meta:keyword> and <meta:user-defined> it is hard to tell, given their
> less specific semantics. They could contain data only useful for template
> management or could be preset metadata for the generated document.
> Having to choose between the chance to leak template handling data into
> generated documents and the inability to preset metadata for documents, the
> second seems a greater issue for me (given I have no template tags like
> "form letter to shutdown stupid customers" ;) ).
> 
> So I agree, let's keep <meta:user-defined>, but then also <meta:keyword>.
>
> And then there is RDF metadata (§4.2.2), which for the non-content-specific
> statements has the same problem as <meta:keyword> and <meta:user-defined>.
> So better kept as is.
> 
> Custom metadata (§4.3.1) would also be treated like <meta:keyword> and
> <meta:user-defined> for the same reasons, keeping as is.
> 
> So in summary, IMHO we should reset/drop these predefined metadata types:
> <dc:title>              - reset to empty
> <dc:description>        - reset to empty
> <dc:subject>            - reset to empty
> <meta:initial-creator>  - reset to current author profile
> <dc:creator>            - reset to current author profile
> <meta:creation-date>    - reset to "now"
> <dc:date>               - reset to "now"
> <meta:editing-cycles>   - reset to 1
> <meta:editing-duration> - reset to 0
> <meta:template>         - reset to template iri
> 
> <meta:printed-by> - dump
> <meta:print-date> - dump
> 
> <meta:generator>           - generated on the fly when saving only
> <meta:document-statistics> - generated on the fly when saving only
> 
> Does this small adaption to your plan make sense to you as well? :)

Well, we almost agree, just one thing : editing-cycles should be imho 0 since 
it's incremented while saving. If you creater the file, you expect that 
counter to go to one when you save it, so default should be 0 on creation 
before saving.

I'll do that in the next days, thanks for the feedback !
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