tool tooltips vs. tool titles (was: Re: Review Request: turn the tooltips of all tools consistently into "Does something" style)

[C. Boemann]

On Saturday 09 June 2012 02:14:40 Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> Am Freitag, 8. Juni 2012, 01:42:41 schrieb C. Boemann:
> > I'm sorry, but I think I also said it should be done individually and
> > with discussions.
> 
> I was not sure if the "not a single patch" was meant with regard to the
> patch at which the discussion happened, so I just created list with all
> tooltips where I saw an issue, to show how many there are. That list was
> not meant as a patch-to-go, maybe "proposal" was still too strong. And the
> whole description text not really well done :) Next time I will just go to
> bed before pushing something not really completed.
> Then, is reviewboard not used for discussions?
It's pretty tough to discuss on review board yes, and for things like 
formulations it's even tough on ml.

> For now moving the discussion to this ml then.
> 
> > (I so wish you would join us on irc)
> 
> (And so do I. Not yet sure when I will be able to switch from this unstable
> by-mobile net connection to a stable by-landline one :( )
:(

> > A mass rename like this following a textbook pattern is just bad
> > usability. Every text should be thought out on it's own.
> 
> Sure, though patterns are also good to have, for less surprise and ease in
> transfering knowledge :)
Yes, it's not like we shouldn't have it in mind, it's just not good to follow 
it blindly
 
> > Another thing to consider is that the tool tips are also used as titles
> > in Words and Sheets, which means they should be short and concise and
> > preferably start with the important word.
> 
> Ah, missed that before, now see it, indeed something important.
> Hm. So the KoToolFactoryBase::toolTip is actually a misnomer, it might
> perhaps better be changed to KoToolFactoryBase::name/title?
> 
> Or rather, should there perhaps be both a title and a tooltip?
> 
> IMHO trying to have a single text serving for multiple purposes might be
> the reason for the current state which IMHO is unsatisfying. Take e.g.
> "Draw a path. Shift-mouseclick ends the path."
> vs.
> 	"Magnetic selection tool"
> vs.
> 	"Pan"
Well the three examples are not used as titles so no it's not the reason, 
though it plays a part in others. We simply have a long history with no real 
effort to make good consistent tooltips. So your effort is needed, but it just 
takes much more than just a few mails

About having two different strings. Yes I was thinking the same thing when I 
replied you. I think that would probably make sense. Not all would need both 
though. only the tools that are used by types of ui


> For me all these different tooltip styles always gave a bad impression
> about the tools. At least they made me think these tools are somehow
> different in their behaviour or how they should be used. Or is that the
> case?
Well there is a difference beteen apps that have a canvas+toolbox metaphor, 
and those that have a more document+tasks metaphor

> See me confused :)
> 
> Ideally the tooltip (as in: real tooltip) could also give a short hint how
> to use the tool, i.e. give a tip ;) Some do already a little, but then, as
> said, this is not consistent.
Yes that may be possible, but then again it shouldn't be a user manual either. 
I don't think "Shift-mouseclick ends the path" is a good thing to have in this 
tooltip. it should be short and concise allowing the user to make sense of the 
icon


> Cheers
> Friedrich