[Bugsquad] [Kde-pim] Reminder: BugDays for Kmail on 18/19 and 25/26 August - please join the fun!

Sat Aug 18 10:57:01 UTC 2012

Top posting, sorry:

Martin: I had that discussion with Laurent before and we agreed upon that work.

But please all, could we have this discussion in #kde-bugs as we are
trying to work right now? Having to switch all the time is not really
helpful for my workflow, reading these mails is keeping me from being
motivated to actually do anything, and it would be nice if the
concerned developers would actually show up during the bug day, at
least...

FWI: I still can't even test the minimum, as apparently Kmail still
doesn't work in 4.9 with gmail, while other mail clients do... So
really, trying to be motivated to do the dirty work for the devs is
very hard if they start my day with demotivating me...

/me tries to get her Kmail working but it is stalled since over an
hour in "Aborting to sync with the Spam folder, while the Inbox never
ever was synced...

Myriam

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Martin Gräßlin <mgraesslin at kde.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 18 August 2012 11:18:30 laurent Montel wrote:
>> Heu... Myriam
>> I don't understand why you close all kmail1 as unmaintained ?
>>
>> I thought that you will look at if it's reproductable on kmail2 and migrate
>> to kmail2 or close it.
>>
>> But close all kmail1 bug is a very  bad idea
> speaking as a heavy bugzilla user with a clean database I have to disagree on
> this point.
>
> In my humble opinion just closing all KMail1 bugs is the only possible and
> sane option at hand. Let's just face the facts: there are 1190 open KMail1
> bugs and an additional 692 open KMail 2 bugs. This is all without counting the
> wishlists items.
>
> Now I think I can provide some insights in what that actually means. With KWin
> we have gone through a transition which is in some regards similar to what
> KMail has gone through. The KWin today is a completely different application
> than the KWin in 2007. Our max of open bugs (+wishes) had been around 800 open
> bugs and now we are down to around 200 open bugs and wishes I don't count
> because they are in a state that I can use it to track my own work.
>
> So we see the numbers are a little bit lower than what we face for KMail. My
> experience is that it takes one hour to triage bugs so that we have ten bugs
> less. The more bugs the longer it takes to triage. Another experience is that
> the older the bug the more difficult it is to confirm whether it is still
> valid or not. In that regard KWin and KMail1 are very similar. To my knowledge
> now with KMail2 KWin is the oldest still in development application of the KDE
> application suite.
>
> A crashreport for an old version is completely worthless. The code fragments
> don't match any more, it is impossible to say whether the crash is still
> reproducable or not. The only possible chance is to ask the user whether it is
> still valid. But this is actually an insult to the user. Uhh we haven't cared
> about this for three years so now could you please tell us whether it still
> applies (oldest crash report for KMail is from 2005, last modified in 2007).
> Again I have gone through that and closed bugs and wishes which started with
> "Imported into bugs.kde.org".
>
> The state the KWin bugtracker was in, meant that it was not usable for fixing
> bugs. If I had half an hour to work on bugs, I spend half an hour to find a
> bug which could be fixed. Now if I think about the state of KMail bugtracker I
> cannot imagine how that can be of any help. Now after the cleanup I have
> searches giving me bugs I could instantly start to work on. No time wasted.
>
> From my experience users are just fine with closing the old bugs. You cannot
> imagine how often I got a "oh I completely forgot about that issue". Also
> users like it if you are as honest as possible. If you tell them that the
> bugtracker is a mess, they understand it.
>
> So my personal advice is to close all KMail 1 bugs with a nice and explaining
> message and asking the users to report a new bug if the issue still applies
> for KMail 2 as of 4.9.0. Something in the area of:
>
> "Thank you for reporting this issue. We are very sorry that this issue could
> not be resolved untill now. In the meantime the development switched from
> KMail 1 to KMail 2. The transition to KMail 2 fixed many long standing issues
> we experienced with KMail 2. The changes are so large that it is not easy to
> verify whether a bug is still valid or not. Unfortunately over the time the
> amount of bugs accumulated to more than 1000 open bug reports. Because of that
> we close all bug reports as unmaintained. We are very sorry that we do not
> have the time to look at each bug individually to verify whether it has been
> fixed or is still valid for KMail 2.
>
> We kindly ask you to give a try to our latest version 4.9.0 released on August
> 1st and give a try whether the issue you reported is still valid for KMail 2.
> In case it is still valid we kindly ask you to report a new issue against
> KMail 2.
>
> Thank you for your understanding and thank you for your help in improving the
> quality of KDE Software."
>
> Please use your available time and that of the volunteers in the best possible
> way. Go through the already huge list of KMail 2 bugs and clean that up. I
> have been shown yesterday an issue reported agains KMail 2 were a user
> experienced data loss monthes ago and nobody replied to the report yet. It is
> very difficult to argument that KDE developers care about the users if one is
> shown something like that. Please work on what matters and thanks for taking
> care of KMail :-)
>
> Kind Regards
> Martin Gräßlin
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