Editing the quick guide and the broader perspective of Amarok

[Myriam Schweingruber]

Hi Willem,

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:05, Willem Ferguson
<willemferguson at zoology.up.ac.za> wrote:
> Dear Amarockers,
>
> I did address my initial response to the list (amarok-promo at kde.org).
> Since I received a private reply, I initially responded privately.
> Since some of the broader issues are at stake, I now return to the list.
>
> Please read through the discussion below, to which I have replied at the bottom.
>
> On 24/08/2010 01:05, Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
>> Hi Willem,
>>
>> shouldn't this have gone to the list?
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:33, Willem Ferguson
>> <willemferguson at zoology.up.ac.za>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Myriam,
>>>
>>> There needs to be a section dealing with launching Amarok outside of KDE, at
>>> the very least incorporating Gnome and Ubuntu. Valorie asked me to insert
>>> some text about Ubuntu.
>>> I agree about Gnome, but why about Ubuntu? There are a lot of other
>>> distributions out there using Gnome, so please let's be specific for a
>>> Desktop environment, but not a distribution.
>>>
>>> It is just two lines and a screenshot, not even sure if the screenshot
>>> is really need, though. But again, please coordinate on the mailing
>>> list and come by in #rokymotion on IRC. If we want to collaborate as a
>>> team we should also use the team communication means.
>>>
>>> I think a guide has to be written as short as possible and to the
>>> point, adding a whole section for a launch on Gnome is a bit much
>>> IMHO.
>>>
>>> The Amarok world is (hopefully) much larger than KDE, Gnome or any other
>>> specific user interface. What we are looking at is a viable opensource
>>> alternative for iTunes. Rythmbox is unlikely to achieve this. I hope the
>>> vision is to ultimately see Amarok distributed as the default music player
>>> with Ubuntu, Redhat and any other major release of Linux, independent of the
>>> specific desktop that is being used.
>>>
>> I know, but as far as the use on Windows and Mac OS are concerned, we
>> are still quite far away from a User Guide for first time users,
>> AFAICT you need to be rather proficient to install Amarok on those
>> systems. As long as that is not easy to install we will not have any
>> first time users on these systems, I think it not very useful to add
>> any of these steps to the QSG for the time being.Let's be realistic in
>> our goals :)
>>
>> I have already added a menu item to the Manual for Amarok on other
>> Desktops and Operating Systems, I think that is where additional
>> information belongs rather than the Quick Start Guide, as long as
>> there are no easy to use installers available.
>>
>>
>> Regards, Myriam.
>>
> Two issues:
> 1) The Quick Guide.
> If you wish to promote the acceptance of Amarok you need to make it
> accessible to first-time users.
> To write a section for KDE users only, containing no information that is
> useful on Gnome or other UIs defeats the object. It does not help
> first-time users on those UIs. The two most common releases for Linux
> are probably Ubuntu and Fedora. On both of these Gnome is a
> commonly-installed UI. Not providing information for Gnome or other
> platforms amount to reticence on your part to promote Amarok on those
> platforms. Why?

I think you should read my reply again....

I didn't say we shouldn't add a two-liner to know how to start Amarok
on Gnome, but we should _not_ do this distribution specific,
regardless of what you might think to be the most common used
distributions.

But besides the startup, there is nothing in Amarok that is platform
specific, so there is simply  nothing else to add.

> I propose including a section similar to the one for KDE, focusing on
> Gnome. But if you want to focus on Gnome as well, you need to use an OS
> that implements Gnome. Why not Ubuntu, since it is the largest single
> release of Linux, therefore with the largest possible source of users
> for Amarok. The Quick Guide is much more important than the full manual
> in this respect since first-time users will be looking at the Quick
> Start Guide before they look at the full manual. Help Amarok by
> facilitating users on other UIs to access Amarok by including suitable
> information in the Quick Start Guide. Valorie requested that I do it and
> I offered to do it. Why should this not be able to happen?


Did you really understand what I said? I agree with Valorie, and we
should add instructions on how to start Amarok on Gnome, but I really
don't see anything else that should be added. Manuals are _never-
written distribution specific, on the contrary, those should always be
written distribution neutral, else it is simply not useful to
everybody. And since a guide should be short, clear and to the point,
adding for each and every step a bazillion of screenshots is confusing
and counter-productive.
>
> 2) The broader "market" for Amarok.
> I have indicated most of my sentiments in the discussion at the top, so
> I am not going to repeat these. At my institute we run several versions
> of Linux, including KDE and Gnome (I personally use Gnome). At our
> university we must be running more than a dozen distributions of the
> Linux OS (Debian, Redhat, Gentoo, Mint, CentOS... etc etc). Yet there is
> no parochialism amongst all of our users. We have a cooperating
> community. What's the issue about Ubuntu that I detect in the discussion
> at the top? Fact is, if Amarok can be included as the standard music
> player with Ubuntu, Fedora, etc, the user base will increase
> tremendously. Is this not what we would all like? Is there a plan of
> action for Amarok? Seeing that Ubuntu is the largest release, I would
> say working towards including Amarok as the standard music app with
> Ubuntu should be a number one goal towards broadening the user base.
> After that probably Fedora. etc etc.  If Amarok is seen as an app for
> only the erudite KDE users who already know how to install and use it
> anyway, Amarok will not be sustainable in the long term. If I use any
> software that requires investment of time in creating a resource base
> (e.g. music collection, photographic archival software) I would like to
> have the conviction that this software will still exist and be
> maintained 15 years from now. Currently I do not think there is a
> serious open source competitor for Amarok. It offers amazing value for
> the open source community. Stategise now in order to maximize the user
> base in order to maximize the sustainability and development potential
> for Amarok! That is the basic rationale with which I became involved and
> wrote the text for the Quick Start Guide. Therefore the emphasis on
> non-KDE UIs (principally Gnome) in the start of the Quick Start Guide.
>
> I agree that the Mac and Windows versions are some way off in terms of
> the average novice user (and a separate issue from the one about
> accessibility on the Linux platform), but we need to work towards it. It
> depends on what one's motivation is with involvement in open source
> software. If one believes that open source software gives freedom of
> use, the opportunity to share intellectual property and to create an
> environment where profit is not always the first driving force, then the
> development of Amarok for Win and Mac has a strong cause.

*sigh* did I say I disagree with the targets? We should just be
realistic in the current goals: there currently is no way for a first
user without advanced computing skills to build Amarok on Windows or
Mac OS. Also, since you seem to refuse to read what I write, we
already have a section in the Manual for Amarok on other platforms,
why don't you just go ahead and start writing instead of discussing?
Only keep in mind that if we want to have this Manual within a
reasonable time frame, there are many other sections that should have
priority over this section, simply because our current market _is_
Linux at over 99%.

Who knows, maybe by the time we finish the manual, there will be a
user-friendly installer or other operating systems, then it is easy to
add at that time. Let's just put the priorities right, and work what
needs to be done for our current users first. I don't see a point now
to write for hypothetical eventual future users and neglecting the
basics. Catch the low hanging fruit, write a manual with the naive
user in mind, be as neutral as possible, be this in regard of
distributiions, desktops, operating systems Media device brands or
whatever. A manual has to be neutral, else we write a manual for
"Amarok with iPods" or "Amarok on Ubutnu", and that is simply not the
goal of a handbook.

Sorry, but while we loose our time discussing these themes and
misreading my statements, I have written the whole ConfigureAmarok
section. How about actually getting started and do what has to be
done? Putting priorities on things that simply are out of the scope of
the Handbook is not making this Manual actually arrive in the
source...


Regards, Myriam

PS. I could have written the Playlist Layout Editor section instead of
replying to this *sigh*
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