Meeting log of today's PA3 meeting

[Shantanu Tushar]

Hi,

We had a pretty constructive meeting in #active about what we want PA3 to 
become. The result is a list of use cases that will need to be fulfilled in 
PA3. Details will be put up on a wiki page in a day.

The meeting log is here http://pastebin.com/yP34CER5 and attached to this 
email.

Cheers,

-- 
Shantanu Tushar
http://www.shantanutushar.com
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[20:32:24] <notmart> so
[20:32:42] <notmart> let's see who raises the hand, all present for the meeting? :)
[20:32:51] <vgrade> \o
[20:33:25] <ivan4real> yes
[20:33:32] <sebas> o/
[20:33:39] --> ghinda (~quassel at 188.24.36.183) has joined #active
[20:33:39] <colomar> I'm here
[20:34:26] <lamarque> o/
[20:34:47] <khohm> o/
[20:35:26] <lbt> o/
[20:36:37] <mdfe_> o/
[20:36:56] -*- ingwa is a filthy lurker
[20:37:08] <fbre> yep
[20:37:11] <-- afiestas_ (~asf at 93.224.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:37:42] <javier> o/
[20:38:02] <notmart> we are more or less everybody i think ;)
[20:39:32] <colomar> >
[20:40:28] <notmart> so, we could start by telling on how each one hopes to see the pa3, ie focusing more on what (a particular set of experimental new features? particular missing pieces to be a product?) whatever
[20:40:37] <notmart> so we can put the discussion in context
[20:41:50] <lamarque> I think we should make creating apps for PA easier. It's very important to attract more developers.
[20:42:27] <sebas> yes, I think a good developer story should really be in place for PA3
[20:42:38] <ingwa> making *installation* of apps easier, ? la app store.
[20:43:36] <colomar> Sorry to interrrupt, but these seem to be already too detailed requirements to me. Could we please focus on a general direction first?
[20:44:05] <colomar> Or have we already agreed on "User-ready product" as a general goal?
[20:44:11] <domme> lamarque: you did the new halt-sleep-reboot selector, didnt you? :)
[20:44:34] <lamarque> domme: yes, I implemented it.
[20:44:55] --> afiestas (~asf at 93.224.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #active
[20:44:56] <domme> lamarque: sorry if i am outdated, have tested it only a few weeks ago.. is there a way to hibernate the device with that?
[20:45:56] <domme> i'm not using the tablet too often so when i lay it to sleep.. the battery is always empty when i try to switch it on ;)
[20:45:57] <lamarque> only in default theme. The contour theme (used in Plasma Active) we decided to remove hibernate (suspend to disk) and keep only sleep (suspend to ram).
[20:45:58] <mdfe_> domme: could you ask those questions later when we have finished our meeting?
[20:46:01] -*- Shaan7 raises hands now o/
[20:46:15] <domme> oops, didnt know it's meeting time :P
[20:46:21] <javier> perhaps someone could change the topic?
[20:46:38] -*- domme leaves
[20:46:57] <javier> you can stay, if you want :)
[20:47:21] <notmart> so let's get back to topic
[20:47:51] <Shaan7> I guess if we want the normal joe to use PA, we should make sure that common usecases are satisfied and doable on PA.
[20:48:20] <Shaan7> maybe have a list of those usecases and mark them "possible/doable" ?
[20:48:22] <sebas> yep
[20:48:34] <sebas> I plan to improve the webbrowser further, I think that's the most important app
[20:48:41] <notmart> to me yes, a priority should be polishing up and see what's missing to have it more product
[20:48:43] <notmart> but just imo
[20:48:52] <javier> perhaps having a wizard on first boot?
[20:49:00] <colomar> So is this our goal? Or do we want to focus on creating the best possible devloping platform so others can help us getitng a user-ready product for the next release?
[20:49:02] <Shaan7> javier: for setting up?
[20:49:04] <sebas> webkit2 based won't happen before PA3 unfortunately, we'll have to wait for Qt5 / Frameworks 5
[20:49:14] <javier> Shaan7: yep
[20:49:21] <sebas> colomar: both :)
[20:49:26] <sebas> it's not one or the other
[20:49:31] <Shaan7> chicken n egg problem ::P
[20:49:46] <colomar> sebas: Do we have enough resources to reach both goals for PA3?
[20:49:46] <ivan4real> sebas any chance of havin webbeowser qt5 soon while the eest is qt4?
[20:50:13] <sebas> ivan4real: hardly, we'll want kdewebkit pieces
[20:50:19] <-- trueg (~trueg at 88.130.204.67) has quit
[20:50:23] <sebas> and those rely heavly on QWebPage, which will change big time
[20:50:24] <ivan4real> ok
[20:50:27] <colomar> If we do, I'm all for it. But we have to avoid getting half-way to both goals but not reaching any of them
[20:50:46] <mdfe_> ack
[20:51:01] -*- notmart thinks the two goals are the same, really
[20:51:23] <Shaan7> as I said, its almost the chicken n egg problem
[20:51:37] <Shaan7> no devs => no apps => no users or no users => no devs :/
[20:52:05] <Shaan7> so yea, doing both is important
[20:52:27] <-- yue (~quassel at 110.251.138.66) has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[20:52:34] <vgrade> also have to consider devices in that loop
[20:52:38] <Shaan7> javier: I guess launching the systemsettings app at first boot should do, its quite simple I suppose?
[20:52:40] <lamarque> Shaan7: yes, but devs needs good documentation about the API. Users need good wizards and easy to use apps to guide them.
[20:52:52] <sebas> For PA2, we wanted to make specific usecases work, is that still our plan?
[20:52:57] <ivan4real> guess that having harmattan apps to work on pa could be nice
[20:53:05] <Shaan7> sebas: I like that plan
[20:53:16] <sebas> I'm actually missing some very basic things, such as "sending a link to the tablet" from my desktop for reading it later
[20:53:30] <javier> Shaan7: that plus other things like connecting to your home wireless network
[20:53:33] <sebas> that's within SLC area, partly
[20:53:57] <sebas> also the picture workflow
[20:53:59] <colomar> For the product goal, we definitely need usecases completed. However, many of the usecases we developed during the last sprint were really cool, but rather non-basic
[20:54:04] -*- Shaan7 is all with the satisfy usecases idea
[20:54:14] <lamarque> sebas: we really need a way to sync data through USB or even Internet. Smartphones used to come with such programs, like the PC Suite for Nokia phones.
[20:54:15] <Shaan7> sebas: do we have a list of usecases?
[20:54:22] <sebas> so for that, we'd need to check what pieces are missing to complete these workflows
[20:54:41] <sebas> lamarque: yes, that's another such possible usecase, importing data
[20:54:58] <sebas> partly overlaps with the images (as in "importing images from phone / camera")
[20:55:04] <sebas> and again: sharing of images
[20:55:24] <Shaan7> sorry for asking again, but do we have a list of such usecases? will be useful :)
[20:55:41] <ivan4real> and activity syncing
[20:55:46] <colomar> sebas: I'd say we first need to define all the basic usecases. The scenarios we have are rather "look what we can do!", not necessarily the basic must-haves
[20:56:01] <Shaan7> +1
[20:56:05] <sebas> colomar: yes, that's the first step
[20:56:05] <mdfe_> +1
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[20:56:12] <Shaan7> wiki? etherpad?
[20:56:29] <sebas> then we need to look into how they should work, and then what's missing, then implement it, then fix it, then release it
[20:56:39] <colomar> Shaan7: I'd say Wiki
[20:56:49] <colomar> That's what we're mostly using so far
[20:56:52] <aseigo> wiki for end results
[20:57:03] <aseigo> something collaborative for in-meeting editting
[20:57:04] <Shaan7> colomar: if we all go right now and edit the wiki, kaboom!
[20:57:15] <colomar> Yes
[20:57:18] <Shaan7> aseigo: exactly
[20:57:29] <notmart> somebody has an etherpad instance?
[20:57:29] <colomar> I meant for the end results ;)
[20:57:43] <sebas> I don't have one
[20:57:50] <sebas> can just as jeff, maybe he's online
[20:57:53] <notmart> yeah, for the end result, dump it on the wiki or they get lost ;)
[20:57:57] -*- Shaan7 has, but for conf.kde.in planning :P
[20:58:21] <aseigo> http://notes.kde.org/plasma <--- use that for now...
[20:58:29] <Shaan7> ah works
[20:58:59] <notmart> cool :)
[20:59:00] <aseigo> and please put your names in there.. helpful
[20:59:03] <colomar> Is it okay if we clear it first?
[20:59:22] <aseigo> colomar: no, and it isn't necessary to do so
[20:59:40] <colomar> ok
[21:00:08] <notmart> Importing photos from phone / camera, sorting, sharing are kinda separate things i think... same workflow, but touches almost everything ;)
[21:00:33] <aseigo> sebas: you know, it has occured to me that if we were able to synchronize activities, that moving urls, etc would be handled already
[21:00:59] <sebas> aseigo: yes
[21:01:00] -*- unormal is back now as well.
[21:01:10] <colomar> aseigo: +1
[21:01:12] <sebas> some interfacing with bookmarks sharing services would still be nice
[21:03:42] <sebas> k, editing frenzy is slowing down
[21:03:52] <aseigo> sebas: would be nice to use owncloud for that
[21:04:18] <Shaan7> ah yea, owncloud == free sync
[21:04:41] <sebas> yep
[21:04:54] <sebas> I should install that some day
[21:05:14] <sebas> ownCloud implements Open Collaboration Services?
[21:05:29] <notmart> Shaan7: free-ish, you should alwayswrite a client to talk to it :p
[21:05:57] <javier> sebas: I think so. weren't both things started by the same person (Frank)?
[21:06:15] <Shaan7> notmart: yep, so if the tablet runs a owncloud instance, the user could just browse to the tablet's (ip?) and copy stuff over
[21:06:20] <sebas> yes, doesn't mean he talks to .. himself ;)
[21:06:21] <Shaan7> javier: yes they were
[21:06:28] <aseigo> sebas: i think it's mostly webdav based
[21:06:44] <sebas> still fine with KIO then
[21:06:48] -*- aseigo doesn't see, really, how OCS would map to ownCloud, but who knows...
[21:06:52] <Shaan7> yep, works flawlessly
[21:06:57] <sebas> should work pretty much transparantly for most things
[21:07:12] <sebas> maybe there is a more "fine grained" API for non-file data
[21:07:26] <Shaan7> well the useful part for us is, just mount a webdav share on user's machine and the user copies music etc to it
[21:07:29] <javier> "the web interface is using HTML5 and we support other open standards like the Open Collaboration Services or Ampache for media streaming"
[21:07:54] <colomar> I think owncloud support would be great, but we need to offer alternatives, I guess. Not every user would want to set up owncloud to sync stuff with his tablet
[21:07:57] <notmart> sebas: iirc they considered syncml for things like addressbooks,calendars etc
[21:08:06] <notmart> dunno if is something actually implemented
[21:08:07] <sebas> hmm
[21:08:11] -*- sebas neither
[21:08:15] <trebor__> ile 4: 24867 Ung?ltiger Maschinenbefehl   LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/lib/virtualbox${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH}" /usr/lib/virtualbox/VirtualBox $@
[21:08:16] <trebor__> trebor at central-unit:~> excuse me for little break. according for usecases. i have one personally suggestion. think about text/pdf/ebook reading. mark text. sort texts in projects. would be useful for university or also business. the only reason I would buy a tablet
[21:08:18] <Shaan7> colomar: i'm thinking of something crazy so that they wont need to :P
[21:08:19] <sebas> could ask though :)
[21:08:40] <Shaan7> Will it be feasible to run a owncloud instance on the tablet itself?
[21:08:51] <notmart> trebor__: added ebook reading to the list
[21:08:51] <sebas> why would you?
[21:09:06] <aseigo> Shaan7: in theory yes.
[21:09:08] <sebas> it will be offline most of the time for other machines
[21:09:22] <sebas> yeah, in theory you can run it on the same machine
[21:09:24] <Shaan7> sebas: so then I use my PC to goto http://tablet and copy my files
[21:09:32] <Shaan7> and because we package it, user doesnt need to set it up
[21:09:33] <notmart> yeah, i see it more as a passive client
[21:09:49] <sebas> Shaan7: you can user your PC and go to fish://tablet already, not ownCloud needed :)
[21:09:53] <-- rnovacek (radek at nat/redhat/x-zvcererefbqwpcot) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:09:57] <sebas> just enable ssh server
[21:10:24] -*- notmart would more like to say to his owncloud server (doesn't matter installed where) what files i want on my tablet, and then the tablet will independently download what's needed (tm)
[21:10:28] <Shaan7> ah, I didnt know fish, have been using the terminal and rsync'ing till now
[21:10:55] <Shaan7> notmart: will need to add some magic to owncloud for that ;)
[21:10:56] <sebas> Shaan7: so 70s...
[21:11:00] <Shaan7> :P
[21:11:43] <sebas> I don't even know if ownCloud specifically does bookmarks
[21:11:51] <Shaan7> sebas: yep works like a charm, wonder why i never saw this before O_o
[21:11:52] <sebas> or newsfeeds, read/unread
[21:11:59] <sebas> Shaan7: \o/
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[21:12:45] <notmart> Shaan7: yeah, this feature is there from like 2002 (working with kate on a file over ssh rocks) we just suck at promoting :p
[21:12:57] <Shaan7> seriously
[21:13:39] <Shaan7> so maybe just make fish:// more discoverable to the user?
[21:13:41] <-- ivan4real (~user at net194-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:13:42] <aseigo> where from here? we have a list in random order of various use cases...
[21:13:48] <sebas> Shaan7: welcome to the wonderful world of KDE3 ;)
[21:13:51] <notmart> Shaan7: bit ot now ;)
[21:13:59] <colomar> Seems like we mixed up usecases with requirements a little (I'm guilty here as well), but we can clean that up later ;)
[21:14:03] <Shaan7> ah, so what do we use now?
[21:14:08] <javier> a file manager another thing
[21:14:13] <notmart> aseigo: prioritizing? wondering for each one what needs to be done
[21:14:23] <notmart> and say this we can do, this is unlikely etc
[21:14:45] <notmart> then from that i would like to have a more specific definition of what needs to be done
[21:14:46] <colomar> Maybe group them first, then prioritize
[21:14:56] <sebas> yep
[21:15:01] <notmart> like "write an slc plugin" or write c bookmark sync client to owncloud
[21:15:08] <aseigo> notmart: isn't it a little difficult to know if it is unlikely without having a slightly more specific definition?
[21:15:13] <notmart> yes
[21:15:24] -*- aseigo is in favour of grouping.
[21:15:29] <aseigo> (as a first step)
[21:18:50] <sebas> ok, prioritizing
[21:19:20] <sebas> to me personally, the Browsing part is pretty important
[21:19:20] <Shaan7> color coding sucks
[21:19:50] <lamarque> tell me about it, I am daltonian :)
[21:20:00] <notmart> so now we shuffle the list of write a new one?
[21:20:23] <sebas> either is fine with me :)
[21:20:30] <Shaan7> lamarque: one place where you can be happy :P
[21:20:34] <colomar> Maybe first assign numbers, then reorder?
[21:21:20] <aseigo> i don't think we can prioritize with such a list
[21:21:26] <aseigo> there isn't enough information
[21:21:40] <notmart> so, elaborating the points
[21:21:59] <colomar> +1
[21:22:03] <aseigo> notmart: personally, i think that is a take-away task
[21:22:12] <notmart> uh?
[21:22:33] -*- Shaan7 saw take away at dominos :P
[21:22:50] <sebas> yeah, maybe we try to nail it down one by one
[21:23:02] <aseigo> i would love to see each point there championed by one or more individuals who then creates a small but standardized set of information describing the task goals (what and why), proposed solution and estimation of cost
[21:23:22] <aseigo> the points that nobody champions gets swept to the side
[21:23:32] <sebas> I can take on the browsing task then
[21:23:52] <Shaan7> lets just start adding descriptions ..
[21:24:01] <aseigo> the items that do get such an item for them would then be prioritized by us together -> "in" or "out" for PA3.. items can be punted to future releases as needed
[21:24:06] <notmart> can do the shell one
[21:24:14] <aseigo> i see two things missing still.. make that 3...
[21:24:14] <notmart> then pick something else like file handling
[21:24:35] <aseigo> 1) data security layer (already being worked on, no?)
[21:24:52] <notmart> yeah, added it as encrypted activities
[21:24:57] <aseigo> 2) sync of activities
[21:25:20] <colomar> aseigo: Should it really be binary decisions? In that case we'd need to look at the list form time to time and see if we have to drop more or can add more, unless our estimates are really really good ;)
[21:25:23] <aseigo> 3) a pet issue of mine ... integrating sleep/shutdown with the lock screen to get rid of that duplication
[21:25:45] <aseigo> colomar: yes, as tasks get completed, more get picked up
[21:25:48] <-- allee (~quassel at allee.mpe.mpg.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:26:02] <notmart> aseigo: added those 3 under device shell
[21:26:05] -*- aseigo notes this should be familiar by now to most plasma devs ... though we are missing the sticky notes ;)
[21:26:39] <aseigo> so ... first thing i like about this is that it very application centric
[21:26:50] <notmart> eh :)
[21:27:20] <notmart> problem of the interwebs is that you can't have real sticky notes and stick them on the hair of other people when you are done :p
[21:27:24] <aseigo> there's a natural shift away from concentrating fully on the shell itself. huzzah for that
[21:27:32] <aseigo> notmart: indeed. the internet sucks ;)
[21:27:41] <colomar> Maybe we should borrow some concepts from Scrum anyway, but that's a different topic ;)
[21:28:35] <colomar> I love the "few weeks sprints with review and planning in-between" stuff
[21:28:52] <aseigo> colomar: we discussed that and even tried it after the first plasma active meeting
[21:29:14] <sebas> scrum seems to work a lot better if we're in the same room
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[21:29:34] <sebas> I think we'll do our usual "knock things off the list" thing
[21:29:38] <notmart> few of us are keeping up with icescrum..
[21:29:40] -*- Shaan7 brb, call
[21:29:55] <notmart> where seems to fail is to work at all with occasional contributors
[21:30:17] <colomar> hm maybe
[21:30:17] <aseigo> notmart: yep
[21:30:43] <colomar> Although taking a look at where we stand form time to time might still help, although in a less ofrmal way
[21:31:07] <colomar> o <> f
[21:31:11] <aseigo> so... standard layout for proposed actions ..
[21:31:21] -*- notmart remembers the icescrum page of plasma desktop.. did work perfectly just until we were all in the same house :p
[21:31:59] <colomar> aseigo: What, why, and how?
[21:32:11] <notmart> colomar: yes, absolutely, otherwise ends up in a bunch of abstract stuff that won't get done
[21:32:13] <aseigo> + effort estimation
[21:32:46] <sebas> + clearly defined usage scenario
[21:32:49] <notmart> + also a who ;)
[21:33:13] <sebas> + depedencies with other tasks
[21:33:16] <colomar> I can surely do some of the what and why stuff, but the technical part of the "how" and the estimation would be tricky for me ;)
[21:34:40] <Shaan7> colomar: estimation is always tricky
[21:34:56] <colomar> Yes. But even more if you don't code
[21:35:05] <sebas> logarithmic scales for that make sense :)
[21:35:05] <Shaan7> ah
[21:35:22] <sebas> "If I don't get it done today, I'll have the rest of the week for it" ;)
[21:36:11] -*- sebas sees aseigo thinking out loud on etherpad
[21:36:14] -*- ivan|home finally got back
[21:36:38] <ivan|home> imo, it is wrong to do a owncloud sync -- we need something that will be able to sync to anything
[21:36:39] <aseigo> sebas: and trying to capture what you are putting here...
[21:36:46] <ivan|home> cal - anything that has caldav
[21:36:55] <ivan|home> stuff - any ftp webdav etc.
[21:36:57] <ivan|home> ...
[21:37:21] <sebas> ivan|home: i think we'll need different synchers at the same time
[21:37:34] <aseigo> ivan|home: if there was a way to offer people easy access to owncloud instances, i'd rather have nice integration (e.g. zero config set up) than have something that works with anything but requires tons of set up
[21:37:59] <aseigo> having one thing that works great is a huge win over having all possibilities, all of which are a PITA
[21:38:03] -*- aseigo looks at kontact
[21:38:34] <notmart> that is also a part quite tricky to estimate since i don't think any of us already digged in to that, ie what would be required to get done on our part, on ownclud part etc
[21:38:36] <aseigo> it's a huge win because people will actually use it.
[21:38:59] <ivan|home> from my pov - we should have a global account setup thingie, the thingie would know that owncloud provides webdav, caldav and whatever else and all interested apps would be able to work with it
[21:39:24] <ivan|home> something like telepathy - you set the accounts - and then the service tells you which capabilities it has
[21:39:39] <ivan|home> it has google talk set upper :) and jabber separated
[21:39:44] <ivan|home> although it is the same thing
[21:39:51] <notmart> global account setup, good point, that would be needed also for slc plugins for instance
[21:39:55] <ivan|home> so you get the power as well as the simple setup
[21:40:03] <notmart> that will be a dependency for a fair amount of points
[21:40:21] <ivan|home> notmart: yes, slc, sync, kontact, im, microblogging etc
[21:40:51] <ivan|home> for example - slc would go like this:
[21:41:02] <ivan|home> 1. oh, im getting image/png
[21:41:12] <ivan|home> 2. get me all stuff where I can send an image
[21:41:21] <aseigo> while that is workable for something like IM, facebookish sites, micrblogging, etc.. i am a lot more sceptical, based on experience, that it can be done as smoothly for a data sync solution
[21:41:26] <ivan|home> 2. the accounts returned - twitter, fb, picasa ... email
[21:41:30] <aseigo> and yes, a global accounts manager is something that ought to be on the hitlist.
[21:42:21] <ivan|home> aseigo: sync would be more difficult, I agree, but I think that we could pull out some general stuff that applies to most sync things
[21:42:41] <unormal> About telepathy I can contact them as I'm already in contact with mck182 and drf about some video chat/KDE telepathy solution. Or is there a telepathy guy already here?
[21:42:47] <ivan|home> my worry is that if we go oC only, we will have a quite small audience
[21:43:02] <notmart> isn't a bit early to go in detail about this when we don't know exactly what owncloud uses yet? :p
[21:43:09] <notmart> (just to keep things on the rails)
[21:43:23] <ivan|home> ok :) (though it uses webdav :) )
[21:44:07] <notmart> so that's a non issue, webdaw support with enough presets to make it work with 0 effort on pwncloud ;)
[21:45:19] <notmart> let's get more concrete, so now let's expand the individual points, everybody takes a task?
[21:45:39] <aseigo> i think people should take the tasks they are directly interested in
[21:45:42] <aseigo> see what gets left out
[21:45:51] <aseigo> and then potentially do a second round
[21:46:36] <aseigo> personally, i'd like to see these proposals hit the mailing list ... have discussion on them there ... move them to the wiki as they appear (after any discussion) ... which means we would need someone doing that (not a big task really)
[21:46:59] <aseigo> discusion -> e.g. on the proposed implementation, if there are points that need addressing, etc.
[21:47:09] <colomar> I can't do anything on my own, but will of course cooperate on the UX/design part of things were applicable
[21:47:10] <sebas> yep, makes sense
[21:47:22] <sebas> I'll pick the browsing one
[21:47:49] <ivan|home> can somebody post the link again? (i'm not ivan4real anymore :) )
[21:48:03] <colomar> http://notes.kde.org/plasma
[21:48:06] <ivan|home> thx
[21:48:14] -*- aseigo will do keyboard, lock screen and ebook reading items
[21:48:23] -*- Shaan7 will do calligra, will check how good is kamoso and improve where necessary
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[21:48:39] <vgrade> vgrade, new devices
[21:48:41] <Shaan7> can we use marble's fremantle version directly?
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[21:49:19] <mdfe_> vgrade: +1
[21:49:38] -*- Shaan7 waves to ksinny
[21:50:13] <ksinny> oops, did i miss the meeting?
[21:50:43] <sebas> ksinny: http://notes.kde.org/plasma yes, more or less
[21:50:47] <sebas> we're not quite done yet
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[21:51:05] <ksinny> sebas: ah, thanks :)
[21:51:09] <notmart> ksinny: still something going on, backlog will be published
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[21:51:34] -*- ksinny looks to the log
[21:51:51] <sebas> ksinny: want me to paste it to your query?
[21:52:15] <colomar> I'll take UI guidelines (which I just added ;), thy scenario and why part of file browsing and keyboard layout improvements (I might even be able to implement those, since it's XML, right?)
[21:52:55] <aseigo> colomar: great. :)
[21:53:05] <ksinny> sebas: yes, pastebin will be good idea
[21:53:05] <sebas> vgrade: cool stuff
[21:54:09] <sebas> ksinny: http://paste.kde.org/189188
[21:54:36] <ksinny> sebas: thanks :)
[21:54:50] <sebas> you're welcome
[21:55:07] <-- annma (~annma at kde/annma) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:55:18] <sebas> so we'll come back with filled in task definitions, improve them on the ML and then get cracking?
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[21:59:08] <Shaan7> sebas: maybe copy+paste them on wiki first?
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[21:59:53] <sebas> Shaan7: yes, wanna do that and post the link to the ML?
[21:59:58] <sebas> Possibly along with this chatlog
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[22:00:09] <Shaan7> sebas: yep, should work :)
[22:00:16] <Shaan7> will do it
[22:00:17] <sebas> ok, cool :)
[22:00:18] <sebas> thanks
[22:00:34] <Shaan7> are we done with editing the pad?
[22:00:43] <notmart> yeah, but to transfer on the wiki should wait more work has been done, otherwise syncronization issues
[22:00:49] <Shaan7> yep
[22:02:20] <ksinny> Shaan7: I guess PMC can do pretty well with the music/video stuff there, isnt it?
[22:02:40] <Shaan7> ksinny: yea if we can get apachelogger to merge the qml branch with master 
[22:03:29] -*- notmart isn't sure would be ready for pa3 timeframe tough
[22:03:33] <ksinny> I asked him few weeks before but he said he doesn't feel motivated for it, will ask him again:)
[22:03:43] <unormal> Shaan7, ksinny: What's the status of PMC? Is there any Nepomuk integration?
[22:03:57] <Shaan7> unormal: it gets data from PA models, so yea
[22:04:02] <ksinny> unormal: yes, there is
[22:04:34] <ksinny> sebas: aseigo^
[22:04:37] <aseigo> one (or both together) of you should submit a proposal for that
[22:04:48] <Shaan7> notmart: well frankly, its not broken any longer, does all the basic stuff
[22:04:57] <Shaan7> just the phonon-qml not being in master :/
[22:05:11] <sebas> ksinny: asking him again would be nice yeah
[22:05:42] <ksinny> all the basic stuffs are working fine
[22:06:00] <notmart> that's good to hear
[22:06:12] <ksinny> only a bit problem happen due to phonon:(
[22:06:37] <ksinny> aseigo: submit proposal? didn't get you
[22:06:46] <notmart> that also gets to the question do we use that in pa or qmultimediakit ;)
[22:07:07] <sebas> I'd prefer phonon
[22:07:17] <sebas> qt-mobility isn't really that great
[22:07:28] <notmart> eheh, indeed ;)
[22:07:31] <Shaan7> +1
[22:07:34] <sebas> QtMultimedia will be its own module in Qt5
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[22:11:42] <Shaan7> what do the numbers next to the items mean?
[22:12:23] <aseigo> first one is away
[22:12:33] <aseigo> ksinny: are you on the active at kde.org mailing list?
[22:13:23] <unormal> Shaan7: estimation of effort.
[22:13:37] <unormal> See at the top in etherpad about the definition.
[22:13:54] <Shaan7> ah ok thanks
[22:13:59] <ksinny> aseigo: yes
[22:14:34] <aseigo> ksinny: see the most recent email there that has a subject that starts with Task Proposal:
[22:14:35] <Shaan7> sebas: is it possible to have a PA package phonon-qml which contains phonon from the qml branch?
[22:14:52] <aseigo> ksinny: one of those for PMC integration with PA would help us figure out how to accmplish that
[22:15:06] <sebas> Shaan7: possible, yes
[22:15:12] <Shaan7> the last time I asked apachelogger he said "i am lacking motivatation to do the merge"
[22:15:18] <sebas> mdfe_ is quicker these days with packaging stuff though
[22:17:36] <Shaan7> mdfe_: um, so can you do that? (create a package phonon-qml which builds phonon from branch "qml"(
[22:17:41] <ksinny> aseigo: ok will try that. If someone could package it on OBS for PA, it'll be great. I'm stuck there, because i need to see how the experience comes out
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[22:24:07] <mdfe_> Shaan7: sure, just point me to  the repo
[22:25:14] <Shaan7> mdfe_: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kdesupport/phonon/phonon/repository
[22:25:23] <colomar> Okay, so we're basically done for today? Will the log be posted to the mailing list or should I save it (I'm on a web client here)?
[22:25:29] <Shaan7> mdfe_:  and https://projects.kde.org/projects/kdesupport/phonon/phonon-gstreamer/repository
[22:25:45] <notmart> colomar: the irc part yes i think, now festival of emails ;)
[22:25:56] <mdfe_> thx
[22:25:58] <Shaan7> mdfe_: qml branches of both, maybe call them phonon-qml and phonon-gstreamer-backend-qml (or according to your/PA naming schemes)
[22:26:31] <mdfe_> k
[22:27:16] <colomar> So I'm off then. See you all!
[22:27:44] <-- colomar (8253ef90 at gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.83.239.144) has quit
[22:28:42] <Shaan7> are we done with the pad?
[22:28:57] <notmart> Shaan7: i think so
[22:29:05] <notmart> authenticator task arrived