<div dir="auto">Thanks this looks very interesting, didn't know about them and they are in business for 20 years already...<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do you know the cost? I could only find a contact form - is it possible to work in a peer2peer fashion for free?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Brg,</div><div dir="auto">Gregor </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Kevin Herschbach <<a href="mailto:kevin.herschbach@tuta.io">kevin.herschbach@tuta.io</a>> schrieb am Do., 27. Juli 2023, 16:18:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Regarding hosting, I'd just like to mention Hostsharing eG, a German hosting coop: <a href="https://www.hostsharing.net/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.hostsharing.net/</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It's mainly targeted towards technically savvy users, but I don't think this will be a problem with this group.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Idealogically, I'd say they're very much aligned with us. Maybe some of the members would even like to support us in some way.<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Anyway, just a suggestion.</div><div><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div>27 Jul 2023, 10:03 by <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded-request@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded-request@kde.org</a>:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:1px solid #93a3b8;padding-left:10px;margin-left:5px"><div>Send Privacy-reloaded mailing list submissions to<br></div><div> <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br></div><div>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div> <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded-request@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded-request@kde.org</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div> <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded-owner@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded-owner@kde.org</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div>than "Re: Contents of Privacy-reloaded digest..."<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Today's Topics:<br></div><div><br></div><div> 1. Re: Next steps: Forum, Wiki, e.V. (Björn Balazs)<br></div><div> 2. Re: Next steps: Forum, Wiki, e.V. (Gregor Rosenauer)<br></div><div> 3. Re: Next Introduction Meeting (Björn Balazs)<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>Message: 1<br></div><div>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 18:49:43 +0200<br></div><div>From: Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>><br></div><div>To: <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div>Subject: Re: Next steps: Forum, Wiki, e.V.<br></div><div>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:57D18A7C-02CF-4E74-B1C5-A02F22F93C17@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">57D18A7C-02CF-4E74-B1C5-A02F22F93C17@lazs.de</a>><br></div><div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div><br></div><div>Moin!<br></div><div><br></div><div>I was looking at FLOSS project management software today, since I thought we might be better off with a combination of Wiki and PM, than with a Mediawiki. But: I did not find anything convincing... What are your experiences? Anything you like and would suggest?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div><div><br></div><div>Am 26. Juli 2023 11:04:36 MESZ schrieb Christian Buggedei <<a href="mailto:christian@buggedei.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">christian@buggedei.de</a>>:<br></div><blockquote>Good morning!<br></blockquote><div>>I would love to help out with the experience as a Product Person and<br></div><div>>moderate a few techniques to collect and sort through the ideas, figuring<br></div><div>>out implementation steps, user and corporate benefits, etc.<br></div><blockquote><br></blockquote><div>>That said, I am a bit swamped with the day job, but I should be able to get<br></div><div>>it together for a few hours per month at the very least.<br></div><blockquote><br></blockquote><div>>Also: I love Discourse, and have a slight dislike for MediaWiki :)<br></div><div>>(Although I don't have a particular recommendation for alternatives. Maybe<br></div><div>>Obsidian online?)<br></div><blockquote><br></blockquote><div>>Cheers,<br></div><div>>Christian Buggedei<br></div><blockquote><br></blockquote><div>>On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 15:21, Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote><blockquote><div>tl;dr: I am overwhelmed by the feedback on the initiative and think we<br></div><div>should<br></div><div>take the next step and formalize as an e.V. To document discussions and<br></div><div>decisions we will establish some services on our own premise.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Moin!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Next to the meetings I organized and offered here, I did lots of direct<br></div><div>meetings and the feedback I get so far is just great and much better than<br></div><div>I<br></div><div>could have dreamt of.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The impression I get is that there is a need for a facilitator to make all<br></div><div>the<br></div><div>great concepts that exist around the basic idea of a de-centralized<br></div><div>personal<br></div><div>data storage become real.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So far most initiatives focus on technical realizations. What is missing<br></div><div>is a<br></div><div>plan to implement these solutions as a new normal in society. The ideas I<br></div><div>present mostly focus on a strategy for exactly this implementation in<br></div><div>society.<br></div><div>As I outlined, we will need strong partners to get this done. This implies<br></div><div>that we - the different initiatives - need to do this together. It is only<br></div><div>one<br></div><div>shot we have.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In order to move forward, I think we need to institutionalize further. As<br></div><div>I<br></div><div>live in Germany, I suggest to create an e.V. as a legal entity. This will<br></div><div>allow us to handle money and formalize our goals and the way we work<br></div><div>together<br></div><div>further.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The goal of this e.V. would be something like:<br></div><div>Prepare the creation and implementation of a NGO that - on behalf of the<br></div><div>data<br></div><div>owners - provides a marketplace for accessing and working with user data<br></div><div>without compromising privacy.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Of course, before we can do so we need to continue discussions and<br></div><div>document<br></div><div>the ideas further. So the next steps will be to create a space and install<br></div><div>tools for this.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think there are two things we need most urgently:<br></div><div>- A wiki for documentation (Mediawiki [1]?)<br></div><div>- A forum to discuss (basically as substitute for this mailing list -<br></div><div>Discourse?)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Anything else you think we need or opinions on the suggested technologies?<br></div><div><br></div><div>We will use the domain <a href="http://privact.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privact.org</a> for that. This is not a decision on<br></div><div>the<br></div><div>final name though.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I will order some Hetzner cloudspace for that (Again opinions on that?).<br></div><div>And I<br></div><div>hope that Frank and other volunteers help to get these services running.<br></div><div>Anybody else willing to help on that task?<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/de</a><br></div><div>[2] <a href="https://github.com/discourse/discourse" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/discourse/discourse</a><br></div><div>[3] <a href="https://www.hetzner.com/--" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.hetzner.com/--</a><br></div><div>Privacy-reloaded mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div><a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br></div></blockquote></blockquote><div><br></div><div>-- Von /e/ Mail gesendet.<br></div><div>-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div>URL: <<a href="http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230726/fa466cef/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230726/fa466cef/attachment-0001.htm</a>><br></div><div><br></div><div>------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>Message: 2<br></div><div>Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2023 21:12:43 +0200<br></div><div>From: Gregor Rosenauer <<a href="mailto:gregor.rosenauer@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gregor.rosenauer@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div>To: Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>><br></div><div>Cc: <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div>Subject: Re: Next steps: Forum, Wiki, e.V.<br></div><div>Message-ID:<br></div><div> <<a href="mailto:CAOB7GC7qJfUhyAN_HN-t_YrM3q9P7OE6H8VnJRhyaC_9ypJO4Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CAOB7GC7qJfUhyAN_HN-t_YrM3q9P7OE6H8VnJRhyaC_9ypJO4Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div><br></div><div>Ich finde generell nextcloud sehr gut, und seit einigen Jahren gibt es mit<br></div><div>collective auch ein Wiki dazu:<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/collectives" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/collectives</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Gute Einführung auf Deutsch:<br></div><div><a href="https://www.hkn.de/nextcloud/nextcloud-collective-wiki" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.hkn.de/nextcloud/nextcloud-collective-wiki</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Für Diskussionen bietet sich natürlich Discourse an:<br></div><div><a href="https://www.discourse.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.discourse.org/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Hosting ist eine andere Frage, aber ich glaube für den Anfang bieten beide<br></div><div>genannten Projekte gratis oder sehr günstige Cloud Zugänge an.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Lg<br></div><div>Gregor<br></div><div><br></div><div>Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>> schrieb am Mi., 26. Juli 2023, 18:49:<br></div><blockquote><div>Moin!<br></div><div><br></div><div>I was looking at FLOSS project management software today, since I thought<br></div><div>we might be better off with a combination of Wiki and PM, than with a<br></div><div>Mediawiki. But: I did not find anything convincing... What are your<br></div><div>experiences? Anything you like and would suggest?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Am 26. Juli 2023 11:04:36 MESZ schrieb Christian Buggedei <<br></div><div><a href="mailto:christian@buggedei.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">christian@buggedei.de</a>>:<br></div><blockquote><div>Good morning!<br></div><div><br></div><div>I would love to help out with the experience as a Product Person and<br></div><div>moderate a few techniques to collect and sort through the ideas, figuring<br></div><div>out implementation steps, user and corporate benefits, etc.<br></div><div><br></div><div>That said, I am a bit swamped with the day job, but I should be able to<br></div><div>get it together for a few hours per month at the very least.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Also: I love Discourse, and have a slight dislike for MediaWiki :)<br></div><div>(Although I don't have a particular recommendation for alternatives. Maybe<br></div><div>Obsidian online?)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Christian Buggedei<br></div><div><br></div><div>On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 15:21, Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote><div>tl;dr: I am overwhelmed by the feedback on the initiative and think we<br></div><div>should<br></div><div>take the next step and formalize as an e.V. To document discussions and<br></div><div>decisions we will establish some services on our own premise.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Moin!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Next to the meetings I organized and offered here, I did lots of direct<br></div><div>meetings and the feedback I get so far is just great and much better<br></div><div>than I<br></div><div>could have dreamt of.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The impression I get is that there is a need for a facilitator to make<br></div><div>all the<br></div><div>great concepts that exist around the basic idea of a de-centralized<br></div><div>personal<br></div><div>data storage become real.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So far most initiatives focus on technical realizations. What is missing<br></div><div>is a<br></div><div>plan to implement these solutions as a new normal in society. The ideas<br></div><div>I<br></div><div>present mostly focus on a strategy for exactly this implementation in<br></div><div>society.<br></div><div>As I outlined, we will need strong partners to get this done. This<br></div><div>implies<br></div><div>that we - the different initiatives - need to do this together. It is<br></div><div>only one<br></div><div>shot we have.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In order to move forward, I think we need to institutionalize further.<br></div><div>As I<br></div><div>live in Germany, I suggest to create an e.V. as a legal entity. This<br></div><div>will<br></div><div>allow us to handle money and formalize our goals and the way we work<br></div><div>together<br></div><div>further.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The goal of this e.V. would be something like:<br></div><div>Prepare the creation and implementation of a NGO that - on behalf of the<br></div><div>data<br></div><div>owners - provides a marketplace for accessing and working with user data<br></div><div>without compromising privacy.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Of course, before we can do so we need to continue discussions and<br></div><div>document<br></div><div>the ideas further. So the next steps will be to create a space and<br></div><div>install<br></div><div>tools for this.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think there are two things we need most urgently:<br></div><div>- A wiki for documentation (Mediawiki [1]?)<br></div><div>- A forum to discuss (basically as substitute for this mailing list -<br></div><div>Discourse?)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Anything else you think we need or opinions on the suggested<br></div><div>technologies?<br></div><div><br></div><div>We will use the domain <a href="http://privact.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privact.org</a> for that. This is not a decision on<br></div><div>the<br></div><div>final name though.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I will order some Hetzner cloudspace for that (Again opinions on that?).<br></div><div>And I<br></div><div>hope that Frank and other volunteers help to get these services running.<br></div><div>Anybody else willing to help on that task?<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/de</a><br></div><div>[2] <a href="https://github.com/discourse/discourse" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://github.com/discourse/discourse</a><br></div><div>[3] <a href="https://www.hetzner.com/--" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.hetzner.com/--</a><br></div><div>Privacy-reloaded mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div><a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br></div></blockquote><div>-- Von /e/ Mail gesendet.<br></div></blockquote><div>--<br></div><div>Privacy-reloaded mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div><a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br></div></blockquote><div>-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div>URL: <<a href="http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230726/49a0ca15/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230726/49a0ca15/attachment-0001.htm</a>><br></div><div><br></div><div>------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>Message: 3<br></div><div>Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 10:02:44 +0200<br></div><div>From: Björn Balazs <<a href="mailto:b@lazs.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">b@lazs.de</a>><br></div><div>To: <a href="mailto:privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div>Subject: Re: Next Introduction Meeting<br></div><div>Message-ID: <3144219.Ddvhk62AXb@arbeitsknecht><br></div><div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br></div><div><br></div><div>Moin,<br></div><div><br></div><div>the Nuudel has spoken - the next introductory meeting will be on Sunday at <br></div><div>11:00 CEST / Berlin time. Hope some more people can also make it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div><div><br></div><div>Am Dienstag, 25. Juli 2023, 12:19:44 CEST schrieb Björn Balazs:<br></div><blockquote><div>Moin,<br></div><div><br></div><div>I have set up a new Nuudel, so we can find the next spot for our<br></div><div>introductory meeting:<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://nuudel.digitalcourage.de/PjmgGGgnPha2C2vc" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://nuudel.digitalcourage.de/PjmgGGgnPha2C2vc</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Looking forward to meet you!<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Björn<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div>Name: signature.asc<br></div><div>Type: application/pgp-signature<br></div><div>Size: 488 bytes<br></div><div>Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.<br></div><div>URL: <<a href="http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230727/128e4215/attachment.sig" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/privacy-reloaded/attachments/20230727/128e4215/attachment.sig</a>><br></div><div><br></div><div>------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div><br></div><div>Privacy-reloaded mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br></div><div><a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>End of Privacy-reloaded Digest, Vol 1, Issue 18<br></div><div>***********************************************<br></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div> </div>
-- <br>
Privacy-reloaded mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Privacy-reloaded@kde.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Privacy-reloaded@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/privacy-reloaded</a><br>
</blockquote></div>