<html>
<body>
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif;">
<table bgcolor="#f9f3c9" width="100%" cellpadding="12" style="border: 1px #c9c399 solid; border-radius: 6px; -moz-border-radius: 6px; -webkit-border-radius: 6px;">
<tr>
<td>
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<p style="margin-top: 0;">On februari 10th, 2015, 9:01 a.m. UTC, <b>Mark Gaiser</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I'm not quite sure if a user wants to see a warning message at all.
When i use my notebook in a dark environment i usually put the brightness all the way down (depending on the notebook).</p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On februari 10th, 2015, 9:18 a.m. UTC, <b>Kai Uwe Broulik</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">As I stated above, "all the way down" can mean "completely off", which I wouldn't expect as a user. I've never seen any other device that does that, apart from some black and white seven-segment display calculators.</p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On februari 10th, 2015, 9:22 a.m. UTC, <b>Mark Gaiser</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Then it's device specific even!
- My notebook: all the way down = still visible
- My macbook: all the way down = off</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Can you detect that?</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">You message does make sense if the lowest step = off. It doesn't if the lowest step is still on.</p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On februari 10th, 2015, 9:47 a.m. UTC, <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Note that this is only for when you are dragging it by mouse - if you drag it all the way down and your screen goes black, there's no way to recover if your keys don't work. If your keys work and stuff, you probably never use the slider, so this for a minority of users. It's the same reason we ask confirmation when deleting a file.</p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On februari 10th, 2015, 9:23 p.m. UTC, <b>Thomas Pfeiffer</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Wait wait wait wait... Could it be that we've come up with an overly complex solution to a rather simple problem?
Actually, those devices which turn the backlight off at 0% brightness are the only ones doing it <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">right</em>. I always found it very weird when my screen brightness OSD said "0%" but I could still see things. 0% brightness means zero brightness means <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">dark</em>.
So why should the user even be able to set the brightness to 0% anyway?
Since turning off the backlight without turning off the screen doesn't make sense practically, there just should be no way for the user to set the brightness to 0%, period.
So let the slider start at 1% and don't allow the brightness to go zero neither via power management nor via brightness keys.
That solves two problems: Accidentally setting to zero <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">and</em> that semantic bullshit of "0% brightness but I can still see stuff".</p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On februari 10th, 2015, 9:50 p.m. UTC, <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><blockquote style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 1em;border-left: 1px solid #bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: inherit;">
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">So why should the user even be able to set the brightness to 0% anyway?</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">To save battery time when the screen is not needed <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">right now</em>, perhaps? I quite often compile things on my laptop when on battery, this can take up to 5 minutes and it's already quite a battery drainer, why the screen backlight should help it when it's not needed? I listen to music while cooking, screen backlight not needed. Etc etc.</p>
<blockquote style="text-rendering: inherit;padding: 0 0 0 1em;border-left: 1px solid #bbb;white-space: normal;margin: 0 0 0 0.5em;line-height: inherit;">
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">So let the slider start at 1% and don't allow the brightness to go zero neither via power management nor via brightness keys.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I disagree there. It's a hardware design after all, there's no reason the software couldn't/shouldn't take advantage of that. Also setting it to 1% does not really make a difference (not on my laptop at least), it's so dark it's useless, so I'd have to be higher, like 5% or 10%, which is...weird, I think.</p></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Quote: "So let the slider start at 1% and don't allow the brightness to go zero neither via power management nor via brightness keys."</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Please, no! I don't really care if 0% is a hardware flaw or design. We apparently are stuck with the fact that we have hardware behaving differently. The software should not limit prevent me to use my hardware at it's full capacity. If 0% in my case is still visible then so be it and that should be allowed just fine. If you forbid this then i expect quite some bug reports for that will flow in.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">If you want 0% to be off then you should buy hardware that obeys that.</p></pre>
<br />
<p>- Mark</p>
<br />
<p>On februari 9th, 2015, 10:25 p.m. UTC, Kai Uwe Broulik wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="12" style="border: 1px #888a85 solid; border-radius: 6px; -moz-border-radius: 6px; -webkit-border-radius: 6px;">
<tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for Plasma and KDE Usability.</div>
<div>By Kai Uwe Broulik.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated feb 9, 2015, 10:25 p.m.</i></p>
<div style="margin-top: 1.5em;">
<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
plasma-workspace
</div>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">
<tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Some graphics drivers, notably Intel, turn off the backlight completely when brightness reached zero, which is also in the spec (0 = off, 1 = very dim) but imho that's unexpected. To prevent the user from accidentally turnign the screen off, especially when keyboard brightness controls don't work, which sadly still happens quite often, the slider breaks free from the user's drag (by becoming disable for two (perhaps 1 is enough?) seconds, so we also catch the mouse wheel case) and displays a warning (which stays there until screen brightness is dialed up again).</p></pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">
<tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Works pretty well, I just realized I forgot the mousewheel-on-trayicon case. Also, I'm open to wording suggestions since it sounds more like "we suck, sorry about that". (Note in the screenshot I used the mouse wheel, hence the displayed 4% rather than 5)</p></pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>applets/batterymonitor/package/contents/ui/BrightnessItem.qml <span style="color: grey">(546ab58)</span></li>
<li>applets/batterymonitor/package/contents/ui/PopupDialog.qml <span style="color: grey">(a2acf31)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/122505/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View Diff</a></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">File Attachments </h1>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/02/09/8b585088-e33e-4862-9c46-207d06f566f1__dimwarning.png">Screenshot</a></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</body>
</html>