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This CC, from the KDE-Frameworks ML, seems appropriate for
discussion here (I think). The issue which is brought up is not the
framework itself- but rather, widespread HIG "errors" and <br>
and "inconsistencies" which are written into KDE Applications. We
should IMO, take one of these alternative steps:<br>
<br>
(1) Stay "loose" with our own guidelines, and say that they are only
"generally appropriate recommendations" for KDE Applications and
Components; or <br>
(2) start writing Bugs against instances of unnecessary deviation
from KDE's keyboard HIG.<br>
<br>
How shall we go? Separately, Mark suggests a re-do of some existing
HIG (at the very bottom).<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/16/2012 11:06 AM, Mark wrote:
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cite="mid:CAPd6JnGX5gTGFyHcgRCejMJ5fNErRWpHWQO5Ypy8gdbRN22FKQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Mark <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:markg85@gmail.com" target="_blank">markg85@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="h5">On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Rick
Stockton <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rickstockton@reno-computerhelp.com"
target="_blank">rickstockton@reno-computerhelp.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="h5">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> On Saturday 12
May 2012 18:36:42 Mark wrote:<br>
<br>
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<< snip >><br>
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<div class="h5">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <span
style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>Here's our
online reference for KDE keyboard shortcut HIG:<br>
/<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Usability/HIG/Keyboard_Shortcuts"
target="_blank">http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Usability/HIG/Keyboard_Shortcuts</a><br>
<br>
Ctrl-M toggles the visibility of the bar /(without
selecting it). Some KDE Applications implement this
(e.g. Gwenview, Dolphin), but others do not (e.g.,
KDevelop). None of these 3 applications provide
"Focus to the Menu Bar" via F10, as documented in
our guidelines. Dolphin uses that key to create a
new item, and the other two seem to completely
ignore the key event.<br>
<br>
I'll recheck the Qt "StandardKey" table and
documentation later tonight , maybe scribble some
fixes. But it looks like Wikipedia is wrong about
"Alt + M" on KDE.<br>
BTW, Here are some other references for keyboard
shortcuts:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/KeyboardShortcuts/KeyboardShortcuts.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002725-SW2"
target="_blank">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/KeyboardShortcuts/KeyboardShortcuts.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002725-SW2</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb545461.aspx"
target="_blank">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb545461.aspx</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.0/input-keyboard.html.en#standard-shortcuts"
target="_blank">http://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.0/input-keyboard.html.en#standard-shortcuts</a><br>
<br>
/>/ While looking at that wiki list i'm quickly
realizing that we're never<br>
/>/ going to get a standard keyboard + mouse
mapping for generic keys across<br>
/>/ all major desktop environments.<br>
<br>
That's because no such conventions exist- yet. We'll
be the first to create them. It's possible that the
GNOME people will cooporate with us, and share
certain values, if we let them know what we came up
with. (That would be helpful, of course.)<br>
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Helpful == Helpful for both Developers AND end-users. (That's the
end of my reply; the following is all from Mark.)<br>
<br>
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For Ctrl + M, there was a technical reason why it wasn't just
ctrl - like in windows - but i forgot the reason. If someone
could explain the reasoning behind that?
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While looking at the shortcut for switching tabs i notice that
kde' own SC apps are not even following it.
<div>According to the docs:</div>
<div>Next tab: Ctrl+PageUp</div>
<div>Previous tab: Ctrl+PageDown</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Doesn't work in:</div>
<div>Dolphin (uses Ctrl+tab for forward and Ctrl+shift+tab for
backward)</div>
<div>Konsole (uses Shift+left and Shift+right)</div>
<div>Rekonq (uses Ctrl+tab for forward and Ctrl+shift+tab for
backward)</div>
<div>Konqueror (uses Ctrl+tab for forward and Ctrl+shift+tab for
backward)</div>
<div>then i stopped testing...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to propose to follow the browsers here and make
their de-facto standard the HIG guideline. As an alternative i
would add the current konsole ones. That would mean:</div>
<div>
<div>Next tab:</div>
<div>- Primary: Ctrl + tab</div>
<div>- Alternate: Shift + Right</div>
<div>Previous tab:</div>
<div>- Primary: Ctrl + shift + tab</div>
</div>
<div>- Alternate: Shift + Left</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
I'm guessing that all current KDE SC apps that use tabs are to
be adjusted to either follow the current HIG or to follow my
proposal.</div>
<div>What's your opinion on using the browser tab shortcuts as the
shortcuts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Mark</div>
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