Fwd: Re: [PATCH] fade out panel in desktopgrid

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Monday 09 February 2009 21:39:30 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> On Monday 09 February 2009 20:02:41 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Monday 09 February 2009 19:10:53 Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > > I need the panel in
> > > desktop grid as it helps me to identify the desktop I am currently
> > > using showing me the apps in this desktop.
> >
> > Just to clarify, the original problem was that the panel would be the
> > same on all desktops (because it changes appearance when desktops are
> > switched). So
> >
> > - it's useless to distinguish a certain desktop as you state
> > - it's different from the actual panel you'll see on that desktop after
> >   switching
>
> I quite know these points. Nevertheless I found a useful way to use this
> inconsistency. I am able to adjust my workflows ;-) Of course that's
> nothing for avarage users.
>
> We all agree that current behaviour sucks. We all agree that when you have
> set the option to only show tasks from current desktop the behaviour sucks.
> We unfortunately disagree about the solution. Your patch solves the problem
> for users who changed the default, but causing a regression for users who
> stick to the default or don't mind the fact that the panel is showing the
> wrong task list. I don't know what's worse. A regression is bad for user
> experience, having a blank area is imo bad for user experience, current
> situation is bad for user experience.
>
> What I'd like to see as a solution is a config option. We have the config
> option for showing all tasks, so why not? Why not autmagically enable the
> "don't show panel feature" when setting this option. Of course this would
> require much more work. But it would be possible and wouldn't cause a
> regression. Btw that's now the second idea I came up with ;-) But I'd like
> the first one to keep the panel in it's place better.

Heh, that would be technically correct, but somehow it doesn't feel right to 
me (i.e. the Mücke-Elefant overkill you're talking about).

> > Zooming out mentally.
> >
> >
> > The whole patch is so simple and the issue so seemingly minor that I'm
> > very concerned about collaboration between Plasma and KWin. Long ago I
> > wanted to have more interaction and integration between Plasma and KWin
> > (and I even think it's critical for a good user experience). I'm not
> > blaming anybody here, but it depresses me how badly that collaboration
> > sucks right now, at least when done via mailinglist. I hope we can find
> > some time to sit together at Akademy to sort out the most glaring issues
> > preventing the KDE workspace becoming one user experience, but that's of
> > course way too late for KDE 4.3, so we're looking at a timeframe of
> > nearly a year before this would become visible, if at all possible.
> >
> >
> > From a Plasma developer POV that loves KWin as well, and has even worked
> > on it a bit, if an issue like this costs so much energy to tackle, I have
> > little hope that for a better integration of those two components. It
> > feels a bit like everything that's coming from the Plasma team is
> > rejected by default and only accepted in very rare cases. That certainly
> > makes me sad and is not in line with interaction in other parts of KDE.
> > :-(
> >
> > We sat together here in Porto yesterday and though about what where we'd
> > like to see more integration between KWin and Plasma. This thread makes
> > me believe that it'll cost a lot of energy along with much frustration to
> > actually get there -- and that while I know that all of us share the same
> > goals and are actually very nice people.
> >
> > Can we all try a bit harder, please?
>
> Personally I think "ihr macht aus einer Mücke einen Elefanten" (sorry for
> the German - please ask sebas for a translation of this phrase). We just
> have a disagreement on what's worse. I think it is OK to discuss and of
> course mailinglists sucks for discussions. You had the chance to talk about
> this at Porto - we just had IRC ;-)

Yes, very true. The Wednesday night before I left I asked myself why we didn't 
get you guys over here. It's a failure on our side to not invite you over. 
"Funny" how this is now getting back to us ... :/

> and talking of it... tomorrow I'll go to join the plasma IRC channel to
> discuss options to improve dashboard with the help of kwin effects ;-) I
> want a higher integration as well.

very cool :> I'll be happy to help out as much as I can, and I'm sure others 
will do so as well.
-- 
sebas

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