<div>Hello,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please don't take my email as a try to start argument about Kickoff and Raptor again. Actually I want to suggest the way how Kickoff and Raptor can coexist and supplement each othe.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Actually Pinheiro's blog post is the first thibg that gives at least an idea of what Raptor will be look like. And looking at this post (<a href="http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2007/10/raptor-join-fun.html">http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2007/10/raptor-join-fun.html
</a>) I want to explain my motivation.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>From first sight Raptor looks for me as a Quicksilver for KDE. But Quicksilver at the moment is far more advanced and powerful. I hope Raptor will have same possibilities very soon.</div>
<div>
<p>Quicksilver will work for Mac OS because there is only one default application to do something in Mac OS. I mean only one default player, one default browser, one mail client, single IM application, etc. So if I do "Play"->"Sound" in Mac OSX I definitely know that iTunes will be launched. The same is for all other actions. But you know that Linux is absolutely different story and especially KDE. In Linux you have a lot of application which do the same (few browser, few mail application, etc). And what will be if I do "Surf"->"Mail" in KDE? How do I make my favorite mail application to be default? As far as I know Raptor can be configured in xml file. But you can't force each user to edit xml file to customize his menu. I don't think this is real. Besides menu users don't have any ide of what xml is.
</p>
<p>As one of dissadvantages in the Raptor pdf file it is stated:<br>>Takes some time to find your application.<br>As I wrote previously in Linux you have a lot of application which do the same. That is why the total number of installed application is huge. And when you see only 5-6 apps icons on the menu panel it will not take "some" time to find what you need. It will take ages! I think that because of this reason there is a standardized list of menu categories at
<a href="http://freedesktop.org">freedesktop.org</a> (<a href="http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html">http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html</a>). Categorization makes it easier to find something. And I guess we can't deny this fact.
</p>
<p>According the same pdf file main disadvantage of Raptor is<br>--<br>You have to know what you are looking for.<br>--<br>But what if you are a new user? Let's say you use Linux for the first time. Or even if you use KDE 4 for the first time (this applies to everyone) how you can exactly know what you are looking for? I mean there are new applications. Or lets assume you've installed some aplication bunde. Let's call it "KDE-ude". And you don't know what aplpications are included. And you can't know what you are looking for. So the post comfortable way for you to know what "edu" application you have is to open menu, navigate to the corresponding category and see what you have. But with Raptor's single panel layout how you can't do this? You will have to click on side arrows hundred times to navigate you applications. Besides I am sure that new applications from our example "edu" bundle will not be placed next to each other. There will be some sorting.
</p>
<p>That is why I don't think taht Raptor can be suitable menu for KDE users.</p>
<p>But please don't think that I am trying to convince you that Raptor is something bad. Raptor is a very good application but for a bit different purpose.</p>
<p>My point is that Raptor can't be the start menu. Because it has absolutlly different goal. It gives you convenient way to access applications when you definitely know what you are looking for. That is why Raptor should be the enhanced "Launch Application" applet. It will do this joob great.
<br>But please don't try to push Raptor as a start menu. Because the start menu is absolutely different thing. <br>What I suggest is to have a Kickoff as a default start menu. This menu has a solid usability research behind it as is intuitively convinient for all computer users. And especially for those who has only Windows experience. And we should have Raptor as a powerful "Lauch Application" applet. I guess that both applications can de default. But because of conceptual differences the use cases of Kickoff and Raptor are different. That is why Kickoff can be a menu in a its classical understandning and Raptor can be an innovative "Lauch Application" applet.
<br></p>
<p>Thanks for your attention,<br>--<br>Best regards<br>Serhiy<br><br></p></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/4/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Riccardo Iaconelli</b> <<a href="mailto:riccardo@kde.org">riccardo@kde.org</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">On Wednesday 26 September 2007 05:17:37 Robert Knight wrote:<br>> Hi Riccardo,<br>><br>> The simplest answer is that the Kickoff works, now. The aim was to
<br>> have an implementation of a tried and tested design which could ship<br>> with Beta 3.<br>><br>> What I remember from the last IRC meeting and from talking to Siraj<br>> was that Raptor was not going to be ready for the next beta
<br>> (originally due for tommorrow, now due next week). I offered to<br>> investigate Kickoff as a solution until then, and this is what I have<br>> done.<br><br>Ok, that's pretty good, thanks for the explanation, and thanks for having kept
<br>your answer under a rationale and calm tone. I would have understood you if<br>you would have answered badly, as I wrote a very defensive e-mail, and I'm<br>sorry for that.<br><br>><br>> > (and given that kickoff has seems
<br>> > to have some technical problems, speed is the main complaint actually<br>> > from the guys using opensuse).<br>><br>> I did not discuss this in depth with others at Akademy although I have<br>> heard Kickoff (KDE 3) described as "feeling heavy" in passing. I
<br>> don't know exactly what the perceived problems are, but I get the<br>> impression that they are implementation issues rather than a<br>> fundamental design flaw. I am happy to talk to OpenSuSE users and
<br>> developers for their opinions on the current Kickoff.<br>> The big advantage here is that there are lots of users I can talk to<br>> and seek opinions from. There have been some small design changes<br>> between the first version of Kickoff and the current version, and I
<br>> will look to incorporate those changes in the KDE 4 version.<br>><br>> To clarify again though, this is not the KDE 3 code ported we are<br>> talking about, but a from-scratch implementation with KDE 4 / Qt 4
<br>> frameworks.<br><br>Thanks a lot for this explanation. Now it's much more clear to me about what's<br>going on, it wasn't so clear before.<br><br>As you said it in the mail beginning the thread, the kickoff rewrote looked
<br>(to me at least) like just a mere try to dismiss all the work that went on on<br>raptor. And it sounded to me more like a personal attack to the raptor<br>developers rather than everything else... that's why my answer was so much
<br>defensive. So, I'm sorry if I sounded agressive.<br><br>So, now that I seem to have understood the whole thing, please correct me if<br>I'm still wrong. You're just trying to make a menu basing on the kickoff
<br>experience, not to get rid of raptor, but just to be sure to have a<br>functional menu for the next beta. =)<br>Obviously, it also means having a chance of choosing the shipping menu for 4.0<br>basing on the readiness of the projects, and without being forced to stick to
<br>one project. =)<br><br>I'm really sorry if I reacted that way, I thought that it was a "pushing my<br>pet project instead of helping the main thing", but as I already said I seem<br>to have completely forgotten everything about a menu discussion, and I'm
<br>thinking that for next times logs are a good thing to keep. ;-)<br><br>Thanks again for the explanation and I congratulate with you for your great<br>work then. =)<br><br>Bye,<br>-Riccardo<br>--<br>GPG key:<br>3D0F6376
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