Observation workflows in KStars -- looking for feedback and ideas

[Valentin]

Hi, 
Just a quick remark without having read the whole thing yet.

It would be great if the observation log and info wasn't stored in the sky object itself, because in the new catalog system it isn't guaranteed that there is a unique instance of that object.

On October 31, 2020 11:16:51 PM GMT+01:00, Akarsh Simha <akarshsimha at gmail.com> wrote:
>Am Sa., 31. Okt. 2020 um 05:30 Uhr schrieb Jasem Mutlaq <
>mutlaqja at ikarustech.com>:
>
>> Hello Akarsh,
>>
>
>Hi Jasem
>
>I agree that the observing wizard is due for a revamp! The GUI itself
>could
>> reuse some design as well. With one object occupying a single row
>that
>> includes all information, including a view for Alt vs Time for EACh
>object
>> (so you can compare a few against each other). Furthermore, I think
>it
>> should also cater now to astrophotography use. For this to work, I
>have a
>> couple of ideas:
>>
>
>I agree that the ability to compare a few objects against each other is
>cool, but I think having the Alt vs Time in the row will make the rows
>too
>big, to the point where you will only be able to display 5--6 objects
>in a
>smaller screen. This is not ideal if you want to search for an object
>by
>just scanning the list. Instead, I propose that you can select multiple
>objects, and just like in the actual Alt vs Time tool, the Alt vs Time
>widget that's in the observation planner should plot multiple traces,
>one
>for each object that was selected -- does this serve the purpose
>instead?
>I'm a bit surprised we don't already do this...
>
>
>> 1. Filter by Band: Broadband vs Narrow band targets.
>>
>
>This would be extremely useful! But this is somewhat challenging
>because we
>don't have a field in KStars that describes whether something is a
>narrow-band target or not. We could make some guesses by catalog (eg:
>Sh2,
>Abell PN), but it's hard because I think we only have one designation
>in
>KStars ("Diffuse Nebula") for both emission and reflection nebulae. Any
>ideas on how to make this happen?
>
>
>> 2. Filter by size: Show objects that fit within say 60% to 120% of
>the
>> FOV. So they're not too small or too big to image. Of course, this is
>only
>> applicable to extended objects with known angular resolutions.
>>
>
>This is totally doable.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I think instead of having to use the wizard page-by-page to
>produce
>> this, these should always be accessible to filter from. So no more
>wizard,
>> but controls to filter ALL the objects. Since we're limited by
>memory, we
>> only show the first 100 or so applicable objects by default, and
>perhaps
>> this can be increased. So we can have these filters:
>>
>
>I agree. I think this is a major itch to scratch! The step-by-step
>wizard
>is a bit too "elaborate" and yet inflexible. I would add the ability to
>search all objects in KStars (including CatalogComponent), as well as
>apply
>the filters only on the existing Wish List (while adding to the Session
>Plan). This way, for those of us who have targeted wish lists that are
>getting "too large to manage", we can still filter from the wishlist to
>plan a given night easily.
>
>Also, showing 100 objects "live" might be hard because we'll need to
>filter
>a very large database repeatedly. So I think we can use a mechanism
>similar
>to the present "Update Count" button, with an "Update List" button that
>can
>take 1--2 seconds to process the entire database (since we cannot
>possibly
>have an index on every field). The other solution is to have an QTimer
>to
>update it whenever the user has not changed the filters for a while.
>This
>feature is very easy to bring on top of the wish list, but it's very
>hard
>to bring for the entire database, especially if we are going to
>lazy-load
>things like PGC galaxies at a later stage (Valentin's merge request).
>
>So for this project, I think we should "leave out" the ability to
>filter
>the entire database including custom catalogs, but we can readily
>provide
>the ability to filter the wishlist as well as the NGC/IC catalogs. I
>think
>we should merge Valentin's work before we can do any filter on the
>entire
>database.
>
>
>> 1. Type: Stars, Planets, Nebulae..etc
>> 2. Band: RGB, Narrowband..etc
>> 3. Size: arcmins steps? maybe have option for "camera FOV" as well
>which
>> is auto-calculated from INDI.
>> 4. Region (Constellation or NSWE)
>> 5. Magnitude
>> 6. Altitude
>> 7. ???
>>
>
>On the FOV subject, we could also allow calculation from FOV symbols
>(and
>for the FOV symbols, we have the ability to use various calculations
>while
>defining them).
>
>If I can add a few more here:
>1. Regex on the name (so someone can search a specific catalog from the
>long name etc.)
>2. Does the object transit meridian during the dark part of the night?
>This
>is immensely useful as is for visual observers, but it becomes very
>useful
>for imagers also if we add one more control -- how many hours before /
>after meridian is available without twilight/moon. This logic will be
>hard
>to code, since we should calculate interference from moon and
>astronomical
>twilight, but I think it will be extremely useful and therefore worth
>it.
>3. Has a "Note" associated with it in the "Log" field (less important)
>
>This is everything I can think of.
>
>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Jasem Mutlaq
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 4:43 AM Akarsh Simha <akarshsimha at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm just trying to get a sense of how people use the Observation
>Planner.
>>> A long time ago, the "Observation Planner" was called "Observing
>List" and
>>> just carried:
>>> (a) A list of objects
>>> (b) Ability to add notes / observation logs
>>> can't remember what else -- there may have been Alt vs Time
>>>
>>> But anyway, in 2009, Prakash Mohan and I worked together as part of
>GSoC
>>> to add the DSS image download feature, and the bifurcation between a
>>> "Session Plan" and a "Wishlist". Back then, my idea was as follows:
>>> 1. Whenever you come across an object that interests you, add it to
>your
>>> Wish List
>>> 2. Before you go out observing, plan out your observing session by
>>> importing the objects you wish to see from your wish list into your
>>> "session plan". KStars automatically assigns the upper meridian
>transit
>>> time on the night of observation (I suspect this is currently
>broken) as
>>> the observing time for each object.
>>> 3. Before you go out to a dark place, while you still have fast
>internet
>>> access, download any reference images you need from the DSS
>>> 4. On the observing field, sort the observing session plan by
>observation
>>> time. A special sorting filter sorts it from evening to morning.
>>> 5. Work through your objects in order.
>>> I have a tendency to pack my night with as many objects as I can
>possibly
>>> observe, and I imagined that the above workflow would maximize my
>>> efficiency.
>>>
>>> After trying this out on the field a few times, though, I found it
>very
>>> sub-par for visual observing. The reason is, it is difficult to
>estimate
>>> correctly how long it takes to observe an object. And the above is
>not
>>> robust to, let's say, losing half an hour due to dinner. Moreover,
>for
>>> those of us who observe with Dobsonians, sometimes meridian transit
>is a
>>> very inconvenient time to observe an object because of the singular
>motion
>>> of azimuth around the zenith ("Dobson's Hole" / "the Dob hole").
>>>
>>> So I later came up with the following workflow that only involves
>the
>>> "Wish List":
>>> 1. Whenever you come across an object that interests you, add it to
>your
>>> Wish List.
>>> 2. Before you go out to a dark place, while you still have fast
>internet
>>> access, download any reference images you need from the DSS
>>> 3. On the observing field, sort the _wish list_ by % of max.
>altitude
>>> achieved at current time, while demoting the objects that are in the
>hole.
>>> 4. At any given time, pick your favorites amongst the top 5 or 10
>objects
>>> in the sorted list and observe it.
>>>
>>> I have found the above wishlist-based workflow exceptional for
>visual
>>> observing. So much so that I am tempted to deprecate the session
>plan
>>> workflow, but I do think:
>>> (a) The session plan workflow is much better suited for imaging /
>>> scientific observations
>>> (b) There might still be people out there using the session plan
>workflow
>>> so I do think we should still retain it.
>>>
>>> Now, finally, I have a few more itches to scratch with the wishlist
>>> workflow:
>>> 1. Wish list grows to unmanageable sizes very quickly.
>>> 2. There is no easy way of removing/demoting objects that you have
>>> already observed.
>>> 3. Plus, unlike with the session plan, there's no scope for targeted
>>> observing projects -- just one massive wishlist.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for other people's "itches" with these workflows, and
>trying
>>> to understand how others use the Observation Planner, if at all. I
>remember
>>> Jasem telling me it's also integrated somehow with the Ekos
>sequencer, so
>>> I'm curious to know how that works. Finally, I'm proposing the
>following
>>> changes:
>>>
>>> 1. Let the Wish List remain a massive "Wish List"
>>> 2. Move/replicate the "% of max. altitude" workflow into the session
>plan
>>> instead.
>>> 3. Provide flexible ways of selecting and adding objects from the
>Wish
>>> List into the session plan (eg: only objects in a certain
>constellation,
>>> only objects in a certain catalog, only objects matching a certain
>regex,
>>> only objects that will attain culmination tonight, only objects
>which are
>>> above a certain magnitude...)
>>> 4. Preserve the old workflow of "assigned times" for objects, and
>fix any
>>> bugs in it
>>> 5. Provide an "Observed" checkbox that will demote the object in the
>"%
>>> of max. altitude" workflow, if checked.
>>> 6. Provide a way of removing objects that have already been observed
>from
>>> the session plan / wishlist
>>>
>>> I believe these features will create a much smoother observation
>>> experience for anyone interested in using the Observation Planner
>for
>>> observing. Now, I don't have enough context on imagers'
>requirements, but
>>> if there are any allied requirements, I would be happy to
>incorporate them
>>> into a project.
>>>
>>> The plan for this project is either I will slowly do it over my
>weekends
>>> and evenings, or work with a GSoC / SoK student to achieve these
>goals.
>>> Anyone else interested is also welcome.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Akarsh
>>>
>>>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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