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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/17/20 6:12 AM, Aaron Mehl wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="ydp7d9b0e08yahoo-style-wrap"
        style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Another question since I
          can't test OFX for my bank. Is the importing of statements via
          OFX automatic or must I make a request to get the statement
          each month?</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I beleive there is an open wishlist to be able to schedule
    downloads, but for now, the user needs to explicitly update the
    account. <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div class="ydp7d9b0e08yahoo-style-wrap"
        style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Are we only talking about
          statements or does each transaction at the bank get shown?</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Updating the account downloads transactions.  The start date for the
    request is configurable, and can be set to a specific date, N days
    before  today, or the date of last update.   (For the last one, it
    actually uses a few days before the actual date.  The user should
    know this in order to not get confused when a duplicate transaction
    appears.  This can happen if the user changed the previous
    transaction in a way that causes KMM to not automatically match the
    new one to the old one.)  KMM had no real concept of a statement,
    other than it makes the most sense to reconcile an account to match
    a statement from the bank.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div class="ydp7d9b0e08yahoo-style-wrap"
        style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div id="yahoo_quoted_8643178080" class="yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div> On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 06:02:23 AM EST, Aaron
            Mehl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mehlzaidy770@yahoo.com"><mehlzaidy770@yahoo.com></a> wrote: </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div id="yiv8532675494">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv8532675494ydpdbff1d6ayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div dir="ltr" style="">Hmn, I see OFX in the
                    handbook, but  KBanking (aqbanking) is missing. <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I'll have to check on this.  We really should at least mention it,
    but see below for why we won't provide any significant details.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div id="yahoo_quoted_8643178080" class="yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div>
            <div id="yiv8532675494">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv8532675494ydpdbff1d6ayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div dir="ltr" style="">Is this information about the
                    plugins being separate  relevant anymore? <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    KMM continues to use plugins to provide an increasing amount of its
    functionality.  From your perspective, whether or not a plugin is
    used for a particular action is probably not relevant to the user. 
    The main reason for pointing out that KBanking is a plugin (and
    other terminology might be as effective) is that when KBanking is
    used to configure an account or download data, the UI used is part
    of KBanking and not KMM, so in many if not most cases, the problem
    needs to be referred upstream to the KBanking team.  <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div id="yahoo_quoted_8643178080" class="yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div>
            <div id="yiv8532675494">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv8532675494ydpdbff1d6ayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div dir="ltr" style=""><br clear="none">
                  </div>
                  <div dir="ltr" style="">As per your suggestion of it
                    being a subset of importing data. This isn't
                    relevant to a user. They need to know that they can
                    connect to their bank (or not) so they can read and
                    manipulate their bank statements etc. <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I disagree, but I know I have a very strong personal opinion that if
    you can get a user to understand something of the why and how things
    are actually done behind the curtain, then they will be more
    resilient to problems.  For example, if direct connect fails, a
    temporary workaround is to use webconnect, which is just a shortcut
    for manually downloading the data as an OFX file and then importing
    it.  Should a user think that is a totally new procedure, or a
    modification of what was already being done?  I know it's a
    philosophical question we won't solve now.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div id="yahoo_quoted_8643178080" class="yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div>
            <div id="yiv8532675494">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv8532675494ydpdbff1d6ayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div dir="ltr" style="">My bank only gives me pdfs, I
                    had to turn them into csv in order to import
                    statements into KMyMoney. But I wouldn't have liked
                    the idea of entering each transaction by hand. All
                    these functions deserve to be labeled in a user
                    friendly manner and easily available. <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Have you requested that your bank provide transaction data
      (whether csv, ofx, qfx, or qif)?  While your individual request
      may not have any effect, the bank will never act unless they know
      their customers want something.</p>
    <p>Jack<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:848686965.1719835.1608203559981@mail.yahoo.com">
      <div id="yahoo_quoted_8643178080" class="yahoo_quoted">
        <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
          sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
          <div>
            <div id="yiv8532675494">
              <div>
                <div class="yiv8532675494ydpdbff1d6ayahoo-style-wrap"
                  style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                  sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                  <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
                    Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><br clear="none">
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                <div class="yiv8532675494yqt1585813908"
                  id="yiv8532675494yqt44626">
                  <div class="yiv8532675494yahoo_quoted"
                    id="yiv8532675494yahoo_quoted_8509347970">
                    <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                      Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                      <div> On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 07:50:28 PM
                        EST, Aaron Mehl <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mehlzaidy770@yahoo.com"><mehlzaidy770@yahoo.com></a>
                        wrote: </div>
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                        <div id="yiv8532675494">
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                              class="yiv8532675494ydp88fb9704yahoo-style-wrap"
                              style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
                              Helvetica, Arial,
                              sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                              <div dir="ltr">Wow, that's lots of useful
                                info.</div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Thanks</div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Aaron</div>
                              <div><br clear="none">
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="yiv8532675494yqt7651321440"
                              id="yiv8532675494yqt13035">
                              <div class="yiv8532675494yahoo_quoted"
                                id="yiv8532675494yahoo_quoted_8756725463">
                                <div style="font-family:'Helvetica
                                  Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
                                  sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                                  <div> On Wednesday, December 16, 2020,
                                    06:58:09 PM EST, Jack
                                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net"><ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net></a>
                                    wrote: </div>
                                  <div><br clear="none">
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br clear="none">
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Intuit is a big bully in this
                                    world.  In many cases, they have a 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    special deal with the bank to be
                                    able to pull your info using their 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    proprietary methods.  If you use
                                    their product, you then get your
                                    data  <br clear="none">
                                    from Intuit, not directly from the
                                    bank.  Intuit is big enough to have 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    serious clout with the banks. 
                                    That's often why banks say they
                                    only  <br clear="none">
                                    support Quicken, even though their
                                    underlying software really supports 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    the OFX standard.  They bought the
                                    software, and they really have no  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    idea how it works.  If you say you
                                    are using something else
                                    (especially  <br clear="none">
                                    open source) they just say it's not
                                    supported.<br clear="none">
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    One thing you MIGHT do, is to run
                                    something like wireshark to capture 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    the packets between your PC and
                                    Intuit when you map an account and
                                    then  <br clear="none">
                                    when you download transactions. 
                                    Unless they are using encryption to 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    hide your data even from you, you
                                    might be able to see if it's OFX or 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    not.  If it IS, you might even be
                                    able to find out those bits of data 
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    you need to map.<br clear="none">
                                    <br clear="none">
                                    By they way - that mapping action
                                    just does an OFX request to the
                                    bank  <br clear="none">
                                    (so you need that info to start) and
                                    it sends a request to report all  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    available accounts for the
                                    name/password provided.  Yes, that's
                                    a bit  <br clear="none">
                                    oversimplified, but that's the core
                                    of it.  If you are using libofx  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    (the KMM built in OFX) then there is
                                    a security setting somewhere in  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    the Configure/KMyMoney to turn on
                                    ofx logging.  On Linux, it puts a  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    file ofxlog.txt in your home
                                    directory, with the full
                                    transaction.  <br clear="none">
                                    Note that also includes plain text
                                    passwords, so treat it with care,  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    but it sometimes has a more detailed
                                    error message than gets surfaced  <br
                                      clear="none">
                                    to some pop-up.<br clear="none">
                                    <div
                                      class="yiv8532675494yqt8013979730"
                                      id="yiv8532675494yqtfd40104"><br
                                        clear="none">
                                      On 2020.12.16 18:12, Aaron Mehl
                                      wrote:<br clear="none">
                                      >  Thanks, That helps.I wonder
                                      what Intuit Mint is using to
                                      connect to  <br clear="none">
                                      > my bank since it found it
                                      right away. It must be something
                                      other then  <br clear="none">
                                      > ofx.Aaron<br clear="none">
                                      >    On Wednesday, December 16,
                                      2020, 05:54:23 PM EST, Jack  <br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > <<a rel="nofollow noopener
                                        noreferrer" shape="rect"
                                        ymailto="mailto:ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        href="mailto:ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net</a>>
                                      wrote:<br clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      >  On 2020.12.16 09:34, Aaron
                                      Mehl wrote:<br clear="none">
                                      > > I am trying to map an
                                      account.I see two options:Kbanking
                                      doen't  <br clear="none">
                                      > list <br clear="none">
                                      > > banks. I see the routing
                                      number and account number for my
                                      bank. The <br clear="none">
                                      > > online accounts window
                                      is empty. What do I need to do to
                                      get this <br clear="none">
                                      > > working?<br clear="none">
                                      > > I next tried 
                                      oxfimporter. My bank wasn't listed
                                      so I choose  <br clear="none">
                                      > manual. <br clear="none">
                                      > > It asks me for org, fid
                                      and url, but I have no idea what I
                                      am <br clear="none">
                                      > > supposed to enter into
                                      these fields.<br clear="none">
                                      > > Any help would be most
                                      appreciated,Aaron<br clear="none">
                                      > Expanding and repeating to
                                      the list some info sent by private
                                      email,  <br clear="none">
                                      > to <br clear="none">
                                      > make available for searching.<br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > First, I suggest thinking of
                                      online mapping an account as a
                                      special <br clear="none">
                                      > subset of importing
                                      transactions, even though it's not
                                      completely <br clear="none">
                                      > accurate.  File imports can
                                      handle multiple file types, but
                                      online <br clear="none">
                                      > import is essentially OFX. 
                                      However, there are two overall
                                      frameworks <br clear="none">
                                      > for online access to account
                                      information:  KBanking (aqbanking)
                                      and  <br clear="none">
                                      > OFX <br clear="none">
                                      > direct connect.  A user is
                                      likely to need only one of these,
                                      and  <br clear="none">
                                      > which <br clear="none">
                                      > one depends on what your
                                      institutions support.  KBanking is
                                      of us <br clear="none">
                                      > primarily in europe, and
                                      direct connect/OFX in the US. (I
                                      simply  <br clear="none">
                                      > don't <br clear="none">
                                      > recall much discussion
                                      relative to other geographic
                                      areas.)  KBanking <br clear="none">
                                      > also handles actions other
                                      than simple download of
                                      transactions, but  <br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > I <br clear="none">
                                      > only use libofx, sp that's
                                      all I can say about KBanking
                                      without <br clear="none">
                                      > guessing.<br clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > At least for libofx, if the
                                      automatic mapping does not find
                                      your <br clear="none">
                                      > institution, it is most
                                      likely that your institution
                                      simply doesn't <br clear="none">
                                      > support direct connect.  The
                                      ability to manually enter those
                                      fields  <br clear="none">
                                      > is <br clear="none">
                                      > for the rare cases where the
                                      institution does support download,
                                      but <br clear="none">
                                      > does not publish that info in
                                      a way that the usual channels find
                                      it.  <br clear="none">
                                      > On rare occasion - the bank
                                      will actually give a customer
                                      those <br clear="none">
                                      > numbers, but usually not.  In
                                      that case, a web search MIGHT
                                      find  <br clear="none">
                                      > them. <br clear="none">
                                      > Further discussion about this
                                      topic can get philosophical and <br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > political, but based on my
                                      personal experience and some
                                      discussions  <br clear="none">
                                      > on <br clear="none">
                                      > this list, banks don't do
                                      their own OFX support, they buy it
                                      from <br clear="none">
                                      > someone else, and to keep
                                      costs down, they say they only
                                      support <br clear="none">
                                      > Quicken, for example.  If you
                                      have a problem, they direct you to
                                      call <br clear="none">
                                      > intuit.  They often
                                      explicitly say they don't support
                                      anything else, <br clear="none">
                                      > and you are often lucky if
                                      they will talk to you at all, and
                                      are even <br clear="none">
                                      > luckier if they are actually
                                      able to help you.<br clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > For example, many banks do
                                      not provide adequate error
                                      messages when <br clear="none">
                                      > they can't complete an OFX
                                      request, and only say that an
                                      invalid user <br clear="none">
                                      > name and/or password was
                                      used.  They often wont tell you
                                      which  <br clear="none">
                                      > versions <br clear="none">
                                      > of Quicken they support, so
                                      you may have to guess and try
                                      different <br clear="none">
                                      > values when attempting to map
                                      the account.  They also won't
                                      generally <br clear="none">
                                      > tell you whether the
                                      ClientUID is required, so you may
                                      have to guess <br clear="none">
                                      > and try with and without.<br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > To your specific questions: 
                                      when you say you see the routing
                                      and <br clear="none">
                                      > account number - where do you
                                      see them?  If you entered them
                                      when <br clear="none">
                                      > creating the account, and see
                                      them in a KBanking window, it's  <br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > probably <br clear="none">
                                      > just because it found them in
                                      the KMM info for the account.  I
                                      doubt <br clear="none">
                                      > very much they will help in
                                      finding the correct mapping
                                      information  <br clear="none">
                                      > for <br clear="none">
                                      > the institution.<br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > I'll expand further, if I
                                      think of anything else to add.<br
                                        clear="none">
                                      > <br clear="none">
                                      > Jack<br clear="none">
                                    </div>
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    </blockquote>
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