<br>replying to the digest using gmail, makes it hard to keep the threading, sorry. <br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/29/06, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:kimageshop-request@kde.org">kimageshop-request@kde.org
</a></b> <<a href="mailto:kimageshop-request@kde.org">kimageshop-request@kde.org</a>> wrote:</span><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Krita UI, painting&sketching (Ilmari Heikkinen)<br> 2. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Casper Boemann)<br> 3. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Bart Coppens)<br> 4. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Ilmari Heikkinen)
<br> 5. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Cyrille Berger)<br> 6. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Boudewijn Rempt)<br> 7. Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching (Bart Coppens)</blockquote><div><br><br></div><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Boudewijn Rempt <<a href="mailto:boud@valdyas.org">
boud@valdyas.org</a>><br>To: "Krayon \(KImageShop\)" <<a href="mailto:kimageshop@kde.org">kimageshop@kde.org</a>><br>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:53:47 +0200<br>Subject: Re: Krita UI, painting&sketching
<br>On Monday 28 August 2006 12:24, Ilmari Heikkinen wrote:<br>> Hi,<br>><br>> Bart Coppens asked me to post these to the mailing list as well, so here<br>> goes.<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>> Maybe I'll try doing one of those too and write down the findings :)
<br><br>That would be great.<br><br>> Basic painting:<br>><br>> [ui issues]<br>> - ctrl-+ & ctrl-- default zoom controls too far from usual hand<br>> position. As replacement, z and shift-z would be one possibility.
<br><br>We might want to add two shortcuts for zooming, since we cannot disregard the<br>KDE standard shortcuts.</blockquote><div><br>Glad you said that. It is very hard to please everyone/anyone with Zoom shortcuts and you invariably need to have more than two.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> - no "press down - pan around"-key (e.g. MMB in GIMP)<br>> makes pan take more actions than optimal
<br>> ("drag with MMB" vs. "space down&up, LMB drag, space down&up.")<br><br>We might want to dedicate MMB to this, but that should be coordinated with the<br>other apps in KOffice, for consistency's sake. (I tried to do what Photoshop
<br>did, spacebar down, LMB drag, spacebar up, but Qt fought me all the way!)</blockquote><div><br>I would be very careful about copying features like that. There have been users requesting spacebar panning for quite a while and is very likely the GIMP will adopt it eventually. Keep in mind tablet users and others who dont have a mouse let alone a middle mouse button (MMB) so even if it was implemented this way alternatives would need to be provided.
<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> - tool shortcuts spread all over the keyboard (instead of being in the<br>> vicinity left hand home), makes head-up operation difficult (not
<br>> looking at kb when changing tools and navigating the image)<br><br>Good point. We just allocated the shortcuts based on a mnemonic for the name<br>of the tool. Here again, I suspect we might want two shortcuts per tool: one
<br>for right-handed people like you, and one for left-handed people like me.</blockquote><div><br>If Krita (and Karbon) supported switching between multiple different set of keybindings I might be interested to put together a set of Photoshop style keybindings for Krita as well as revisiting my previous attemtps at nudging the defaults further in that direction as much as possible.
<br><br>I recently helped add sets of keybindings in the style of Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand to Inkscape. It is somewhat tedious work and might take a while but I work I would be willing to do the same to help out Krita and Karbon if I thought there would be someone interested in providing the necessary graphical interface for switching between full sets of keybindings.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">> - numbers controlling brush opacity would be nice too (1 = 10%, 2 =<br>> 20%, ..., 0 = 100%)
<br><br>You mean as shortcuts?</blockquote><div><br>Seem like an unusual one to set by default but making it possible for users to assign their own keys to these actions sounds interesting. <br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> Layers:<br>><br>> - new layer button shows menu of adding different sorts of layers, but<br>> layer palette has lots of free space. moving the buttons to the<br>> palette would take one search+click away and make the UI more visible
<br></blockquote><br>hmm. "layer palette has lots of free space" not sure I agree with that. <br>feels about right to me, putting in a drop down for layer types would use up more space and make things even more cramped
<br>(i prefer smaller displays with higher resolutions, I expect you have a desktop size far in excess of 1024x768)<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> - creating new layer shows a layer dialog, this is needed maybe 1% of<br>> the time. Better just create a new layer directly and let user summon<br>> dialog afterwards if needed<br><br>I'll give both these points a try.
</blockquote><div><br>I see now how the two requests fit together you want to push the options to the palette making that part of the interface more visible and then avoid bringing up the dialog to make that part of the interface less visible.
<br><br>There was a discussion similar to this on the gimp lists a while back about not bringing up the layers dialog by default. You can read more of that discussion here:<br>
<a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg11143.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg11143.html</a><br>
<br>For beginners it was better to show the dialog and present the options in an easily discoverable manner and give enough feedback show them things were actually happening. (Just adding another layer in the layers dialog is too subtle, especially if the layers dialog is closed.)
<br><br>For more advanced users there is the option to shift click on the new layer button which creates a new layer using the defaults. <br></div><br>This approach in Gimp 2 is the reverse of what was used in Gimp 1 where the default was to quietly to create a new layer and shift clicking the new layer button brought up a dialog the dialog but this was not something beginners ever discovered. Admittedly gimp 1 was a lot more cumbersome since it didn't have a New Layer* menu item though, let alone one with the convenient Ctrl+Shift+N shortcut.
<br><br>(* techincally it did but it was buried in a context menu of the layers dialog with a shortcut that only worked when that dialog was in focus)<br><br></div>I understand the Krita developers may want to do thing entirely differently but hopefully then can take all issues into account and make an informed decision.
<br><br>Sincerely<br><br>Alan Horkan<br><a href="http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/">http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/</a><br><br>