<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/14/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jarosław Staniek</b> <<a href="mailto:js@iidea.pl">js@iidea.pl</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Gianni Rossi said the following, On 2005-11-14 14:00:<br><br>> On 11/13/05, Jarosław Staniek <<a href="mailto:js@iidea.pl">js@iidea.pl</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>>Cornelius Schumacher said the following, On 2005-11-14 00:52:
<br>>><br>>><br>>>>On Monday 14 November 2005 00:26, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>>-Since certain database backends may require latin1 identifiers, these<br>
>><br>>>are<br>>><br>>>>>created implicity for level 1 (user do not know about this).<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>Why would any user want to explitcitly give identifiers when they can be
<br>>>>created implicitly?<br>>><br>>>See my answer to Robert Knight for more info.<br>>><br>>><br>>>>This doesn't sound like a good reason for user levels,<br>>>>but as a good reason to remove some complexity from the user interface.
<br>>><br>>>To fully understand this need, you need to look how database<br>>>tables/queries/<br>>>etc. are named in a real-world database (or data warehouse) applications:<br>>><br>>>e.g
. you can encounter very descriptive names like "Annual report for<br>>>medicines" table name. One user may want to use this long the name in SQL<br>>>statements and scripts, other do not want this and want to just put his
<br>>>own<br>>>abbreviation. He/she is the developer in this case.<br>>>In the same time simple users should not be even aware of above issue if<br>>>they<br>>>do not want. They most probable wouldn't want that unless they are using
<br>>>SQL<br>>>or scripting.<br>>><br>>>We _cannot_ assume everyone is simple user nor advanced user. I mentioned<br>>>about data warehouses. I don't know about your impressions, but in this<br>
>>case I<br>>>encountered cases when I already have predefined latin1 names in one<br>>>linked<br>>>database (ofter only 8 or 12-character long) and just in my master<br>>>database I<br>>>wanted to add descriptive captions that I can then use in GUI and project
<br>>>documentation.<br>>><br>>>Another place power users may want to see real names and not captions by<br>>>default is project navigator ( on the left hand:<br>>><a href="http://kexi-project.org/pics/0.9/data_form_navigator.png">
http://kexi-project.org/pics/0.9/data_form_navigator.png</a> ) or table/query<br>>>column names.<br>><br>><br>><br>> Just a question. How would an advanced user "communicate" with a normal<br>> user? For example, one user creates a table using captions, other uses
<br>> names, or vice-versa? I'd think that to reduce confusion, BOTH names should<br>> be seen all the time, regardless of user status; though, the capton/name<br>> should be put to a side in smaller print or something. I'm thinking about
<br>> the case where there are many tables/queries with simmilar name and an<br>> advanced user is talking to a normal user.<br><br>Good question. Problems with communicating between "real database developers"
<br>and newbies is not so depenent on our idea of user levels:<br><br>- Look that if caption is not available, Kexi falls back to latin1 name<br>everywhere in the GUI (in particular, for table and column names)<br><br>- always displaying latin1 name to newbies does not mean they will choose
<br>reasonable short name that advanced user may prefer. Thus it can be better to<br>stay with automatically generated names so advanced user at least will see<br>what to expect from a project created by a newbie.<br><br>
In short, by hidding the name I have chosen to be as similar to other popular<br>tools (MS, Filemaker) as possible. The target audience comes from spreadsheet<br>world, so it's a priority to hide technical storage-related stuff by default.
<br><br>One thing we could added to the dialog<br><a href="http://iidea.pl/~js/kexi/shots/0.9/object_save_as.png">http://iidea.pl/~js/kexi/shots/0.9/object_save_as.png</a><br>for the 'newbie level' is a "specify name" checkbox or "advanced >>" button.
<br>What about this?<br></blockquote></div><br>That seems ok. It would be nice however, if kexi sugested a default "meaningfull" name based on the Caption; ex:<br><br>Capiton: Office Address<br>Name: OFFICE_ADRESS
<br><br>or<br><br>Caption: Situação Temporária<br>Name: SITUACAO_TEMPORARIA<br><br>Notice the removal of "çãá" in favour of "c" and "a"<br><br>But, then again, I guess that would be language dependant... how would this work?
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