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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/29/2014 06:37 PM, Vincent Pinon
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello Steve,
Thanks a lot for your enthusiastic mail...
sorry if my replies (inline) don't sound so optimistic:
not your fault, it's just that I haven't been very successful last times with
this code and my hanger may leak into these lines :-)
Le jeudi 26 juin 2014, 15:22:00 Steve Guilford a écrit :
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
Lately, I been working on a very compact and powerful framework for the
Oracle database that allows it to be used as a warehousing, streaming,
transcoding, editing and rendering platform.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I know almost nothing about DB, but is it hard to make it run on other(s) DB
engines that would come from the FOSS world?
And why is your work focused on Kdenlive and not MLT in general?</pre>
</blockquote>
I have developed a framework (besides the multimedia stuff) that
allows me to do things w/ the Oracle DB that have not been
accomplished before. I call it a logical user-extensibility
framework for the database. Essentially, I make the DB smarter. By
doing so, I can move code that <u>had to</u> be placed in the
middle tier down to the data layer. This has very significant
implications when it comes to system architecture, stability and
security. That's part of the reason I have a multimedia framework,
including the user-extensibility part and Kdenlive integration, that
amounts to less than 1.5 Mb. of software.<br>
<br>
If I can write less code to accomplish a given task and have more
flexibility, stability and security, that's what I'm gonna do.
Leaves me w/ more time for skiing and sailing.<br>
<br>
My play in the multimedia space is just the first area that I am
trying to prove the worth of my underlying systems integration
tools. If the techniques prove to be useful, I'm sure they'll make
their way to the FOSS marketplace at some point. An occurrence I
would support.<br>
<br>
Can other DB's do what I'm doing w/ Oracle? Maybe but I do not have
the time presently to pursue that avenue. One thing at a time.<br>
<br>
Another factor is the enterprise implications. I believe that, at
the extreme, a service such as what I am proposing requires
enterprise class computing resources -both hardware and software.
As a cloud based service, the users will never see or know that an
Oracle DB forms the backbone - as many don't when it comes to Amazon
or Salesforce. A system such as what I'm proposing also has
significant local, enterprise class sales opportunities (i.e.
studios, gov't etc etc.) In those instances, an enterprise based
solution w/ integrated hardware, software, support etc. is more
attractive - in my opinion. I have no qualms against using FOSS
software but at the same token I am also not opposed to using
proprietary solutions if the cost/benefit analysis is favourable.<br>
<br>
As far as MLT, Kdenlive was my entry to NLEs and rendering
technologies. I'll get to MLT in a bit. I suspect that I'll be
able to off-load the rendering tasks from Kdenlive to the 'system'
w/ MLT. That should be neat-o.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
Kdenlive now has the potential to be the first cloud enabled, location
independent, database capable video editing platform. Given that the need
for physical files has been eliminated, it also qualifies as potentially
the most secure architecture available. I hope to be able to post my
modifications upstream in the near future.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I'm kind of a old school boy, and cloud is *for me* not a priority at the
moment. But it may interest many other people, so if both versions can coexist
smoothly why not?
</pre>
</blockquote>
Why not indeed. I believe I have the concepts coexisting smoothly
at present.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
In my opinion, the only way that Kdenlive can survive is to have a
'corporate sponsor'; one that has a vested interest in seeing the project
supported and improved. I am trying to build just such a business model.
I am looking to build a location independent, cloud enabled video editing
environment.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Corporate sponsor can be comfortable for sure, and generally a good basis for
quality, but as in your example, it can drive the app in mainly one special
direction.</pre>
</blockquote>
Please don't confuse my use of Oracle w/ a desire to steer Kdenlive
in one direction vs. another. Keep in mind that my interface points
are straight SQL. So, any other DB that can implement a MM
framework such as mine would be able to replace the Oracle backend.
Therefore, I see my changes to Kdenlive as being applicable to any
other platform.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
I've become somewhat familiar with Kdenlive's internals. From what I've
been seeing in the forum/dev-list traffic, there are not many that have an
in-depth knowledge of Kdenlive. That's obviously a big problem.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Agreed :-/
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I'd like to help !!!
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Hurray! Please, jump into the boat ;-)</pre>
</blockquote>
I'll grab a life-vest and a manual bilge pump off of my sailboat.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
We need to create a developer's roadmap
</pre>
<pre wrap="">need to merge and sort ideas, will be discussed in Randa
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">and documentation. This is critical.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">100% agree: it took me so long to roughly understand what happens where, and
there are still many dark areas.
The problem is that there is an obvious need for code refactoring, almost the
1st thing to do, so if we write a doc now it will be quickly (?) obsolete.</pre>
</blockquote>
I don't think the docs would be quickly obsolete. But, before we
tear off into a refactoring effort, just what are we trying to
accomplish w/ a refactor? Are we just renaming variable, routines,
modules and restructuring the source-tree? If so, developer's
documentation will be important to that task.<br>
<br>
So far, from what I've seen, there's no document that spells out the
goals of a refactoring effort. Creating such a document will then
allow us to formulate a plan of action to accomplish the desired
goals.<br>
<br>
Another thing to consider is that gathering system/developer's
documentation will allow us to come up to speed w/ Kdenlive's
architecture before we start tearing it apart.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We also need to dispel the myth that
a video editor is way to complicated 'for me' when somebody approaches this
project for the first time.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Hum, it's true that it is not so easy in its globality! But I hope that with
another code organization it would be easier to play with internals...</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes..that's the hope !!!<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The developer's roadmap would be an evolving set of documents w/ provisions
for user comments and contributions etc. I think some of these items in
the roadmap need to be in place before we start altering code. Other items
can be filled in as we go along.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Problem: this is boring, and good wills have their limits ;-)</pre>
</blockquote>
I don't think the developer's documentation will need to be updated
frequently. We'll have a significant push at first but then things
will slow down.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
there's really no way to brace and indent
code other than GNU style. Yes, it increases the vertical size of code
somewhat but do remember that when K&R style was introduced, we were coding
on VT-102 terminals w/ 80x24 screens. (I have an original edition of K&R's
Learning to Program in 'C' book - a classic - but I digress) So, vertical
size was an issue then. Now - not so much. However, in my mind, K&R
style's legacy of hard to read code and style-induced bugs prevails.
As you might have surmised, Kdenlive uses K&R style. So, that would be the
first code change I'd recommend - and it really would not involve any logic
changes whatsoever. It would be relatively straightforward and easy.
Braces on separate lines and 2 character indent levels. I think that
making these changes would be very important to our ability to attract
other coders. Hard to read code is always a turn-off.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Just a run of "indent" away...
But actually the free time I'm giving is mostly in the transportations, on a
small 10" (600px height) display, so size matters (a bit) to me!
I didn't think formatting could be such an important issue...
If only we had the same as "go format"?!</pre>
</blockquote>
If you're writing code on a 600px high display, I feel sorry for
you. <span class="moz-smiley-s1"><span> :-) </span></span><br>
<br>
Coding can be frustrating enough as it is...<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Refactoring the code so that its easier to understand and modify will be
crucial if we are to have a platform that is conducive to encompassing new
features and capabilities. The refactoring effort would also include a
re-organization of the source code tree. This provides a means of
splitting the code into distinct MVC sections and have source files
organized within separate subdirectories. Thanks For Reading This Far !!!
</pre>
<pre wrap="">How long does the last technical discussion date back on this list? :-)</pre>
</blockquote>
Don't know....<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">That's all I've got for right now. I hope some find this interesting and I
look forward to possibly helping out w/ Kdenlive. If anybody has access to
an Oracle DB (you can download and install one for free for
evaluation/development purposes) I'll set you up w/ my Multimedia
framework. It's all of 1.5Mb in size (I rounded up).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">"free" here is not the one I like, sorry for being sensitive on the topic :-)</pre>
</blockquote>
No worries. I know that Oracle is not for everyone.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1431704.brUME2pcsN@hpmini" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If you need help setting up an Oracle DB, I can help w/ that too. It's
easier than it looks....
Sincerely.....Steve Guilford...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Thanks again for offering your help.
Don't hesitate to go forward: have a look at how to get involved in KDE in
general; you must have a KDE account for forums, so I gess you also can edit
docs in userbase/community wikis. You will have to ask an upgrade to developer
account to be able to push to git (create your branch :-) )...
You can find some help on this list, but also a lot in the global KDE
community.</pre>
</blockquote>
I'm getting 'linked in'....!!! Time to evolve from a lurker to a
participant...!!!<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Steve Guilford
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dbplugins.com">http://www.dbplugins.com</a></pre>
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