Hi,<br><a href="http://userbase.kde.org">userbase.kde.org</a> looks too simple for such complex documentation like Kdenlive certainly is. So far I tried to find page which has subpages, however I was not successful - I tried about 10 of pages and there were "all-in-one-page". Please can you show me where it is different?<br>
<br>Jan D.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/8/1 Yuri Chornoivan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yurchor@ukr.net">yurchor@ukr.net</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Simon Eugster <<a href="http://simon.eu" target="_blank">simon.eu</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> wrote<br>
<div class="im">> Would anyone object to switching to wikibooks now?<br>
<br>
</div>Maybe it is worth to consider UserBase ( <a href="http://userbase.kde.org" target="_blank">http://userbase.kde.org</a> )?<br>
<br>
It is closely related to KDE, it has translation (both offline and online) capabilities (TranslateWiki extension), and automatic docbook generation capabilities (in development) for offline documentation.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> As I've seen, we don't have an offline documentation anyway. Or am I<br>
> mistaken? When clicking the menu entry Help > Kdenlive Handbook I get<br>
> redirected to <a href="http://kdenlive.org/user-manual" target="_blank">http://kdenlive.org/user-manual</a>. Which is mainly at the<br>
> state of 2008.<br>
><br>
> @Hugh: I would wote «Pro» for GSoC.<br>
><br>
> Simon<br>
><br>
</div>> 2010/7/20 Jan Dr?bek <<a href="mailto:me@jandrabek.cz">me@jandrabek.cz</a>>:<br>
<div class="im">> > Hi,<br>
> > in my opinion, installed help is considerable after having some<br>
> > documentation which was revisited by users, heavily used and cover whole<br>
> > Kdenlive (it looks like utopia now). Creating only online accessable<br>
> > documentation will certainly upset some people, but most of today users have<br>
> > good internet connection - so I see it acceptable.<br>
> ><br>
> > Structure is of wikibook is linearized (I have not been so courage to make<br>
> > it structured) so I attach also non-linearized version which I originally<br>
> > used in my work.<br>
> ><br>
</div>> > Jan Dr?bek<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> ><br>
> > The original structure:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Introduction<br>
> ><br>
> > What this book is about, and for users it is<br>
> > Terminology<br>
> > Typographics conventions<br>
> ><br>
> > Before start<br>
> ><br>
> > Introduction, what can it do<br>
> > Dictionary<br>
> > History and present<br>
> > Development<br>
> > Installation<br>
> ><br>
> > Gentoo<br>
> > Debian<br>
> > Fedora<br>
> > Ubuntu<br>
> > OpenSuSE<br>
> > Mandriva<br>
> > ArchLinux<br>
> > FreeBSD<br>
> > MacOS<br>
> ><br>
> > First project and recording<br>
> ><br>
> > First run<br>
> > Introduction with user interface<br>
> ><br>
> > Project structure<br>
> > Monitors<br>
> > History (undo)<br>
> ><br>
> > New project<br>
> ><br>
> > Project settings<br>
> ><br>
> > Video recording<br>
> ><br>
> > Video4Linux<br>
> > Firewire<br>
> > Screen recording<br>
> ><br>
> > Timeline and first cut<br>
> ><br>
> > Timeline and its tools<br>
> ><br>
> > Timeline<br>
> > Selection<br>
> > Cursor of timeline<br>
> > Cut<br>
> > Spacer<br>
> ><br>
> > First cut<br>
> ><br>
> > Cut from beginning/end<br>
> > Fade in/out (audio)<br>
> > Add translation<br>
> > Basic settings of translations<br>
> ><br>
> > Translations and effect<br>
> ><br>
> > Translations<br>
> ><br>
> > Keyframes<br>
> > Default translations<br>
> ><br>
> > Effect<br>
> ><br>
> > Handling effects<br>
> > List of effects<br>
> ><br>
> > Orientation in project, other types of clips<br>
> ><br>
> > Useful smallness<br>
> ><br>
> > Guides<br>
> > Markers<br>
> > Split view (monitor)<br>
> > Working with tracks<br>
> > Group clips<br>
> ><br>
> > Different types of clips<br>
> ><br>
> > Color clip<br>
> > Generated clip (noise, countdown)<br>
> > Slideshow<br>
> > Subtitles<br>
> ><br>
> > FInishing project<br>
> ><br>
> > Render<br>
> ><br>
> > Timeline selection<br>
> > Render form<br>
> ><br>
> > Creating DVD<br>
> ><br>
> > Advanced functions<br>
> ><br>
> > Batches<br>
> > Reencoding<br>
> > Project cleaning<br>
> > Managing project profiles<br>
> > Downloading new lumas files<br>
> > Managing rendering profiles<br>
> ><br>
> > At the end<br>
> ><br>
> > Other materials<br>
> > Other video editors<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > 2010/7/20 Hugh Tebby <<a href="mailto:hugh.tebby@gmail.com">hugh.tebby@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >><br>
> >> Hi,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Considering the installed help, I'm not sure it should be a criteria for<br>
> >> choosing the online documentation system. The help could just send users the<br>
> >> the online documentation, like what is done in Blender for instance. Having<br>
> >> links to online documentation, video tutorials and the forum should be good<br>
> >> enough.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The main issue with the documentation is covering the whole app and (most<br>
> >> of all) keeping it up to date. A wiki seems to me like the best solution,<br>
> >> and the most common. The Blender wiki is quite good I find :<br>
> >> <a href="http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page" target="_blank">http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> We should really decide what structure to give to the user manual and then<br>
> >> have one documentation which could be translated to other languages.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Jan, could you provide a translation at least of the titles of your<br>
> >> wikibook ? It would help understand and discuss (and hopefully enhance !)<br>
> >> the structure.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Also in order to maybe get a stronger community we could have a look at<br>
> >> OpenShot, or Krita. OpenShot actually started building a community before<br>
> >> the app was available ! (via Facebook for instance). One thing that is great<br>
> >> about OpenShot and Krita is that their websites are also development blogs.<br>
> >> Krita has a weekly development summary which is a great read, and Openshot<br>
> >> has regular updates for enhancements and new features.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Could Kdenlive (or maybe MLT...) also participate in the Google Summer of<br>
> >> Code next year ? A couple of full time devs would make quite a difference !<br>
> >> Recently Krita had a fundraising in order to pay one of their devs full time<br>
> >> for several months in order to optimize and stabilize the app, and it worked<br>
> >> great ! I would certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dozens dozens<br>
> >> to get two or three months of full-time Kdenlive development ! (but I<br>
> >> suppose that also means finding a developper that has a few months of spare<br>
> >> time...)<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Anyway, just a few thoughts !<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Cheers,<br>
> >> Hugh<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> 2010/7/20 Simon Eugster <<a href="http://simon.eu" target="_blank">simon.eu</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> 2010/7/19 Yuri Chornoivan <<a href="mailto:yurchor@ukr.net">yurchor@ukr.net</a>>:<br>
> >>> > написане Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:13:44 +0300, Dan Dennedy<br>
> >>> > <<a href="mailto:dan@dennedy.org">dan@dennedy.org</a>>:<br>
> >>> ><br>
> >>> >> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Till Theato <<a href="mailto:root@ttill.de">root@ttill.de</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
> >>> >>> Hash: SHA1<br>
> >>> >>><br>
</div></div><div class="im">> >>> >>> On 07/18/2010 07:19 PM, Jan Dr?bek wrote:<br>
> >>> >>>> Hi,<br>
> >>> >>>> I have just finished putting my Kdenlive manual (in czech) into<br>
> >>> >>>> wikibooks (I<br>
> >>> >>>> mentioned that I wrote it as my secondary school leaving project in<br>
> >>> >>>> forum).<br>
> >>> >>>> So now czech manual is complete, visible and searchable from google<br>
> >>> >>>> and I am<br>
> >>> >>>> going to update it regulary.<br>
> >>> >>>> Feel to browse it on address <a href="http://cs.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kdenlive" target="_blank">http://cs.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kdenlive</a><br>
> >>> >>>><br>
> >>> >>>> I am wondering if it would be possible to add a visible link to<br>
> >>> >>>> kdenlive.orgdocumentation page mentioning this complete manual for<br>
> >>> >>>> czech users.l (I did<br>
> >>> >>>> this on czech community pages)<br>
> >>> >>>><br>
> >>> >>>> Thanks<br>
</div>> >>> >>>> Jan Dr?bek<br>
<div class="im">> >>> >>><br>
> >>> >>> Hi,<br>
> >>> >>> I don't understand the language but it seems to feature quite a lot.<br>
> >>> >>><br>
> >>> >>> There recently have been discussions about moving the documentation<br>
> >>> >>> back<br>
> >>> >>> to a wiki, so maybe we could you use wikibooks for all languages.<br>
> >>> >>> I will post this thread in our forum, so hopefully we will be able to<br>
> >>> >>> set up a better documentation in a few more languages (or at least in<br>
> >>> >>> English, too).<br>
> >>> >>><br>
> >>> >>> @jb: Where would you like the documentation to be placed? Our current<br>
> >>> >>> Drupal system doesn't seem to be the best solution.<br>
> >>> >>><br>
> >>> >>> regards till<br>
> >>> >><br>
> >>> >> Keep in mind that some people expect and use installed help as well.<br>
> >>> >> Most wiki-based documentation systems do not make it convenient to<br>
> >>> >> output XML to support that. For Kino, I enhanced a wiki that uses<br>
> >>> >> docbook XML as a backend and could perfectly export to installed help.<br>
> >>> >> It also supported multiple languages, but the big downside is that it<br>
> >>> >> only supports ISO-8859-1 and not UTF-8! It might be worthwhile for<br>
> >>> >> someone leading documentation to look into these this aspect of it. If<br>
> >>> >> the options are still not good, then some documentation regardless of<br>
> >>> >> installable or not is better than none.<br>
> >>> >><br>
> >>> ><br>
> >>> > Hi!<br>
> >>> ><br>
</div>> >>> > In fact, we have similar problems with KDE UserBase. Burkhard L?ck<br>
<div class="im">> >>> > created<br>
> >>> > the script [1] that can easily convert wiki export data to KDE docbook.<br>
> >>> > You can see the exported Parley manual on <a href="http://docs.kde.org" target="_blank">docs.kde.org</a> [2] (glitches<br>
> >>> > are<br>
> >>> > due to <a href="http://docs.kde.org" target="_blank">docs.kde.org</a> problems, not the problems in docbook itself,<br>
> >>> > locally<br>
> >>> > it looks good).<br>
> >>> ><br>
> >>> > I have just tried it on wikibooks pages (English and Czech in UTF-8)<br>
> >>> > and<br>
> >>> > it seems that the script works fine. Thus wiki -> KDE DocBook<br>
> >>> > conversion<br>
> >>> > can be done with the minimal efforts.<br>
> >>> ><br>
> >>> > Best regards,<br>
> >>> > Yuri<br>
> >>> ><br>
> >>> > [1]<br>
> >>> ><br>
</div>> >>> > <a href="http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/doc/parley/wiki2docbook.py?revision=1141465&view=markup" target="_blank">http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/doc/parley/wiki2docbook.py?revision=1141465&view=markup</a><br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> >>> > [2] <a href="http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdeedu/parley/index.html" target="_blank">http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdeedu/parley/index.html</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I think a good manual is very important for kdenlive:<br>
> >>> 1 There are often quite basic questions on the IRC and in the forums.<br>
> >>> 2 It would make users more aware of kdenlive<br>
> >>> 3 It would show how many possibilities you have.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> To the last point, I for example did not know that you could set<br>
> >>> in/out points of clips when they are still in the project list until<br>
> >>> there was a bug report in mantis about this.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> To point one, recent questions were e.g.: How do I cut two clips at<br>
> >>> the same position? How can I render just a piece of the video? What is<br>
> >>> the difference between the project profile and the render profile? How<br>
> >>> do I get transparent titles?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> The current solution was a good attempt, and it would have been great<br>
> >>> if it had worked, but unfortunately it did not:<br>
> >>> <a href="http://kdenlive.org/user-manual" target="_blank">http://kdenlive.org/user-manual</a><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Switching back to wikibooks might have the advantage of a larger user<br>
> >>> base that is already registered. But could we still export then?<br>
> >>> The second advantage is the Czech manual that already is there.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Would there be big disadvantages of using wikibooks?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Another thought, we need a stronger community. Perhaps we should have<br>
> >>> a direct link to the forums in the title navbar on <a href="http://kdenlive.org" target="_blank">kdenlive.org</a>? (Imho<br>
> >>> it is a little bit hidden atm; most users will expect it to be there.)<br>
> >>> Having a stronger community would also decrease the waiting time for<br>
> >>> answers in the forum, increase the number of tutorials, etc. We need<br>
> >>> some community expert :)<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Just my thoughts.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Simon<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Kdenlive-devel mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Kdenlive-devel@lists.sourceforge.net">Kdenlive-devel@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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> >><br>
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> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
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> ><br>
> ><br>
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