[Kdenlive-devel] Where are the default project profiles?

Tue Aug 24 18:22:18 UTC 2010

Dan,

Thank you for the list. I agree, the way you have it laid out is
pretty disambiguous. Actually probably less so than Avid or FCP.

Avid uses a mix of terms, for example for their Video column they
define the format for certain clips as 60i (e.g. "1080i/60" -
incorrect IMO) while in the Format column they define the same clip as
"HD 1080i/59.94" (correct) and then in the FPS column they define the
clip as 29.97fps (correct). While for SD clips the Format column might
read "SD 30i NTSC".

Fcp uses a similar mix of terms to distinguish video format from frame rate.

So in this case there is a clear distinction between the video format,
e.g. 1080i59.94 and the video frame rate, 29.97.

Since you specify 'fps' in the MLT list, this is very clear as it
separates video format (1080i) from frame rate.  Provided the same
convention is used throughout kdenlive I think the list you provided
is acceptable.

-jtm

On 8/24/10, Dan Dennedy <dan at dennedy.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:27 AM, John T. Mertz <thatonefilmguy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> IMO it is better to use proper terminology, instead of shorthand for
>> framerates (I.e. "29.97p" instead of "30p", "59.94i" instead of "60i"
>> or "30i")
>
> Here is what I am using for project profiles in MLT, which kdenlive uses:
> $ cat src/mlt/profiles/* | grep description
> description=HD 1080i 25 fps
> description=HD 1080i 29.97 fps
> description=HD 1080i 30 fps
> description=HD 1080p 23.98 fps
> description=HD 1080p 24 fps
> description=HD 1080p 25 fps
> description=HD 1080p 29.97 fps
> description=HD 1080p 30 fps
> description=HD 720p 23.98 fps
> description=HD 720p 24 fps
> description=HD 720p 25 fps
> description=HD 720p 29.97 fps
> description=HD 720p 30 fps
> description=HD 720p 50 fps
> description=HD 720p 59.94 fps
> description=HD 720p 60 fps
> description=CIF 15 fps
> description=CIF NTSC
> description=CIF PAL
> description=CVD NTSC
> description=CVD PAL
> description=DV/DVD NTSC
> description=DV/DVD Widescreen NTSC
> description=DV/DVD PAL
> description=DV/DVD Widescreen PAL
> description=HDV 1440x1080p 25 fps
> description=HDV 1440x1080p 29.97 fps
> description=HDV 1440x1080i 25 fps
> description=HDV 1440x1080i 29.97 fps
> description=HD 720p 25 fps
> description=HD 720p 29.97 fps
> description=HD 720p 50 fps
> description=HD 720p 59.94 fps
> description=QCIF 15 fps
> description=QCIF NTSC
> description=QCIF PAL
> description=QVGA 15 fps
> description=QVGA 29.97 fps
> description=QVGA Widescreen 29.97 fps
> description=384x288 4:3 PAL
> description=512x288 16:9 PAL
> description=QVGA Widescreen 5 fps
> description=NTSC 29.97 fps
> description=VGA NTSC
> description=VGA Widescreen NTSC
> description=768x576 4:3 PAL
> description=1024x576 16:9 PAL
> description=SVCD NTSC
> description=SVCD Widescreen NTSC
> description=SVCD PAL
> description=SVCD Widescreen PAL
> description=VCD NTSC
> description=VCD PAL
>
>> This removes confusion because there is no vagueness about what the
>> frame rate is, whereas if you say '30p' this could mean '29.97p' or a
>
> There is no vagueness in the above about the frame rates; it even
> includes 'fps' when NTSC/PAL is not used for SD formats.
>
>> true 30 fps. This is less common with, say 30p, but is more critical
>> for formats such as 23.98p where there is a standard for shooting both
>> 23.98p or a true 24fps, so simply using shorthand '24p' instead of
>> '23.98p' can be very confusing.
>
> which is done
>
>> My recommendations for frame rates is the following:
>>
>> 59.94i (for interlaced NTSC)
>
> As you can see I am NOT using that notation partly because HDV started
> going in that direction, and then other HD standards starting doing it
> another way (1080i__, 720p__). Also, I am choosing to use fps over the
> vertical refresh frequency. People who know and understand interlace
> can easily figure out what is meant (especially when the UI spells it
> out for them); novices do not and think in terms of frames.
>
>> 29.97p (for progressive NTSC @ 30fps)
>> 59.94p (for progressive NTSC @ 60fps)
>>
>> 23.98p (for 24p video media shot at 23.976 fps rate - most video
>> cameras. In this case it is ok to abbreviate 23.976 as 23.98)
>> 24p (for true 24 fps media, typically film)
>>
>> 50i (for interlaced PAL)
>> 25p (for progressive PAL @25fps)
>> 50p (for progressive PAL @50fps)
>>
>>
>> This will make professional videographers happy :)
>>
>> -JTM
>>
>> P.S. I would never refer to 50i media as 25i, nor 59.94i media as
>> 29.97i or 30i. I understand the logic behind it but this terminoligy
>> is atypical.
>
> And where do you see this?
>
> This discussion is about conforming the Transcode profiles to the
> Project profiles, and I agree with the consistency goal.
>
>>
>> On 8/23/10, Simon Eugster <simon.eu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I noticed that in the transcode dialog we use 60i and 30p – Think we
>>> should try to stay consistent there?
>>>
>>> 2010/8/21 Simon Eugster <simon.eu at gmail.com>:
>>>> 2010/8/4 Dan Dennedy <dan at dennedy.org>:
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Simon A. Eugster <simon.eu at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 04.08.2010 22:20, Till Theato wrote:
>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/04/2010 09:38 PM, Simon A. Eugster wrote:
>>>>>>>> I would like to add 1080/50i there. See:
>>>>>>>> http://kdenlive.org/forum/choosing-video-profile-which-choose
>>>>>>>> But where are they stored? Couldn't find anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't expect Kdenlive to reveal all its secrets ;)
>>>>>>> Actually they aren't in Kdenlive at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought so; git grep usually reveals such things :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have a look at your MLT source directory: profiles/
>>>>>>> or on the system something similar to /usr/share/mlt/profiles/
>>>>>>> However there is no need to add 1080/50i. HD 1080i 25fps (or
>>>>>>> /usr/share/mlt/profiles/atsc_1080_50i) is the right one. "25fps" is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> meant to be 25i and therefore 12.5p. Sounds a bit misleading though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there something like an official naming?
>>>>>> I mean, there are 25 full frames, but 50 interlaced frames. And isn't
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> frame rate actually 50 fps? (A half frame every 50th second?) Because
>>>>>> otherwise it would not make sense to store them interlaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it is 50 fields per second, but the 'f' in fps means frames, and
>>>>> there is 25 frame per second. I used to use Hz for the vertical
>>>>> refresh rate, which is probably most correct, but I chose to dumb it
>>>>> down and keep it simple for people who are not so familiar with
>>>>> interlace. Those who are knowledgable should be able to understand
>>>>> from both the 'fps' and the other fields that are shown when selecting
>>>>> profiles.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the explanation! Clear now.
>>>> http://kdenlive.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kdenlive?view=revision&revision=4741
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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> +-DRD-+
>
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