<html>
<body>
<div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif;">
<table bgcolor="#f9f3c9" width="100%" cellpadding="8" style="border: 1px #c9c399 solid;">
<tr>
<td>
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105348/">http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105348/</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<br />
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<p style="margin-top: 0;">On June 25th, 2012, 11:48 a.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">First of all thanks for a perfect review request! That's how they all should be done ;)
As for the change - I'm not in favor. Truth is that the bold font looks bad, but the italics looks a bit worse for my eyes. I'd like to do two things here - Nikita, please add Usability group in the review groups. To all others - try brainstorming some ideas here how we can separate these (do we need it at all?).</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 7:03 p.m., <b>Kai Uwe Broulik</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">As far as I can tell the custom presence messages still include a status such as "Away" or "Busy"?
So we could add a custom delegate to the combobox to have it in two-rows. A bigger icon on the left and the generic term as heading and if available a custom subtitle below it. Similar to e.g. Plasma does for the Wallpaper Plugin.
See here: http://privat.broulik.de/plasmacustomdelegate.png
I think in this example the bold font doesn’t look bad at all. It just looks out of place if the font size is the regular dialog font size.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 7:11 p.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">That looks good, thanks for the idea!
> the custom presence messages still include a status such as "Away" or "Busy"
Nope, the "Away", "Busy" etc is replaced by the custom presence message itself, see the "After" screenshot above.
> So we could add a custom delegate to the combobox to have it in two-rows
I think this would be really nice. Anyone interested in doing a mockup/stealing that code and putting presences in it?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 8:46 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">> http://privat.broulik.de/plasmacustomdelegate.png
Isn't the icon good enough for that?
What will be on the first row and what will be on the second?
If no custom message means no second row, then i don't like if by default (with no custom presences) there would be only huge 2-row variants with big icons and empty second rows.
That's just wrong.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 8:49 p.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">First row would always be the presence name, second the presence message (if present). I'll do a mockup tomorrow so we can see how it would look like. Might turn out it's not good at all ;)</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 9:28 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">This is what i mean: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/25/status0.png (based on the image above).
Also, that example has bad rowsize: the row height is about 60px.
That will be around 480px high dropdown select, with the default number of statuses (6 + 2 special).
4 custom presences would make that 720px and that won't fit nicely in 1366x768 (don't forget about window headers, the panel, etc.), which is common for 12" notebooks.
That would mean another scrollbar in a place which works perfectly without a scrollbar. I don't like it.
Yes, it can be made smaller that on the original (mockup: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/25/status1.png), but that would still look too empty if no special presences are set.
And the status icons are quite simple, having big icons with little visual differences (mostly in color) doesn't look very good to me.
Maybe, collapse them to single-row, if there is no custom presences?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 9:29 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Fixed link: http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/25/status1.png</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 9:43 p.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Nice work! Thanks a lot.
I agree with most of your arguments. As such, it wouldn't be too good.
Here's a question - Do we actually need to visually separate those things? </pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 9:53 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">There is a larger question: is there a need in unchangable «default» statuses with no presence message?
Look how it's handeled in kopete.
In short, the default statuses are also editable, so there is completely no need to separate them from custom statuses.
And the special entries are separated using a horizontal splitter line.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 10:01 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">That allows, for example, to have only one «away» status with custom presence message.
That's not allowed by ktp, the only way to have a custom «away» presence message is to have at least two «away» statuses.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 7:23 a.m., <b>Bjoern Balazs</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Sorry for the possibly stupid question: What are the two states that get visually separated by the two fonts? I concluded 'default' vs. 'personal' statuses - is that correct?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 1:46 p.m., <b>Aurélien Gâteau</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">I agree the bold font is too heavy, but I actually believe there is no real need to distinguish between custom and default statuses. I would just use the regular font for all status texts.
Slightly off-topic: the left column looks crowded IMO, because the icons are all stuck to each others. I think it would look much nicer if the row height were slightly increased so that there are 2 or 3 pixels between the status icons.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 1:50 p.m., <b>David Edmundson</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Keeping offtopic discussion separate at: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=302560</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 5:21 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">> I actually believe there is no real need to distinguish between custom and default statuses. I would just use the regular font for all status texts.
True. It's probably a bad idea to even have such thing as unchangable default statuses. In kopete, default statuses can be changed or deleted.
The other thing that is different in kopete is that status names and presence messages are separated. The names are shown to the user in the status selector, and the presence messages are used by the protocol. For example, there can be a short-named status with a long presence message.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 5:53 p.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Thanks Aurélien for your notes.
Bjoern - yes, that's correct. The default ones are simply presences with no status message, the personal ones are presences carrying a presence message, which gets displayed to your contacts as your status.
As for Kopete - I find it quite confusing. You never know what actually what your presence message is unless you either open the presence manager or the edit message window. You also can't easily unset the presence message, the only way is one of those mentioned above, which is slow and not nice. We're doing way better job already imho and I'm considering removing the default presence when you set your own message. KTp team, what's your take on this?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 6:16 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">> Bjoern - yes, that's correct. The default ones are simply presences with no status message, the personal ones are presences carrying a presence message, which gets displayed to your contacts as your status.
The difference is that default ones are not editable.
> As for Kopete - I find it quite confusing.
You mean the separation of names and presence messages? Yes, probably you are right, maybe it's best not to have a separate name for presences and show the actual message.
But what about editable default presences?
> We're doing way better job already imho
True. But there are some issues, for example when one wants his default «Away» presence to always hold a presence message «Will be back in 15 minutes», and doesn't want an extra «Away» presence with no status message.
> I'm considering removing the default presence when you set your own message
Didn't get it.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 6:36 p.m., <b>Martin Klapetek</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">> But there are some issues, for example when one wants his default «Away» presence to always hold a presence message «Will be back in 15 minutes», and doesn't want an extra «Away» presence with no status message.
That's not really an issue, it's mostly one/more user's preference and we'll never settle for all the preferences.
Your idea brings some questions:
1/ If you have this default presence changed to some presence message, what happens when you edit this inline? Should it replace that presence? Should it add new presence?
2/ What if you select your presence message, change it to "", should it then remove and readd the default Away? Should it only add the default Away (and have two away presences again)?
3/ What if other presence control changes it to pure Away (which contact list needs to reflect)? Do we change the customized presence? Do we add it again?
Most answers/solutions will very probably lead us to our current situation, so it would introduce quite some complexities in the code for very little gain.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>On June 26th, 2012, 8:40 p.m., <b>Nikita Skovoroda</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">{Just to make it clear: the following is only my opinion ;-)}
> 1/ If you have this default presence changed to some presence message, what happens when you edit this inline? Should it replace that presence? Should it add new presence?
The same as when you inline edit custom presence message, so this case isn't special in any way. The main idea is not to make any difference between custom and default presences.
As it is now, inline editing custom presence creates a new custom presence.
> 2/ What if you select your presence message, change it to "", should it then remove and readd the default Away? Should it only add the default Away (and have two away presences again)?
The same thing should happen as changing the presense message to any other string. Shouldn't make this case special, also. The only difference between presences with a presence message and presences without a message should the label in the gui. Presences with a message are named using that message, and presences without a message — using the default, «category/icon» name, like «Away». Behaviour remains the same.
> 3/ What if other presence control changes it to pure Away (which contact list needs to reflect)? Do we change the customized presence? Do we add it again?
For example, auto-away has its own status message, so it sets Away with some specified custom message.
If something else sets Away with no custom message, why should it be handled differently from auto-away?</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Based on the irc conversation, i'll make a new mockup in a couple of days.</pre>
<br />
<p>- Nikita</p>
<br />
<p>On June 25th, 2012, 7:50 p.m., Nikita Skovoroda wrote:</p>
<table bgcolor="#fefadf" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="8" style="background-image: url('http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/rb/images/review_request_box_top_bg.png'); background-position: left top; background-repeat: repeat-x; border: 1px black solid;">
<tr>
<td>
<div>Review request for Telepathy and KDE Usability.</div>
<div>By Nikita Skovoroda.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated June 25, 2012, 7:50 p.m.</i></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">
<tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">The bold font looks bad, especially if there is no custom presences (then almost all variants are bold).
Changes done by the patch:
1) global-presence-chooser.cpp — make special presences italic.
2) presence-model.cpp — make presences without status message not bold.
3) presence-model.cpp — make presences with status message italic.
This replaces «normal» font with «italic», and «bold» with «normal» in the presence shooser.
Looks better to me.</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
<table width="100%" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" style="border: 1px solid #b8b5a0">
<tr>
<td>
<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">Does not break anything. The result is on the screenshots.
This does not break visual separation of different status groups, when there are a lot of custom presences (the bold entries separated them) — they can be easily distingushed thanks to the icons.</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
<ul style="margin-left: 3em; padding-left: 0;">
<li>global-presence-chooser.cpp <span style="color: grey">(6729f51)</span></li>
<li>presence-model.cpp <span style="color: grey">(72bfc3d)</span></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105348/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View Diff</a></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Screenshots </h1>
<div>
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105348/s/608/"><img src="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/images/2012/06/25/180_400x100.png" style="border: 1px black solid;" alt="Before" /></a>
<a href="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/105348/s/609/"><img src="http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/images/2012/06/25/179_400x100.png" style="border: 1px black solid;" alt="After" /></a>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</body>
</html>