everyone has a choice, if they don't like kde they don't have to use it they have got options, however what I said was really my attitude to people's comments which I would probably say if they commented on any on my stuff, but this is different with other people. However i don't want to say much as pretty much more will be said, so i better keep quiet.
<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 22/02/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Anders Storsveen</b> <<a href="mailto:wakko@generation.no">wakko@generation.no</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
lol, why do everyone think it's the features that is the problem? it's<br>not the features, it's the way some of them are presented.<br>try not to make a flamewar out of this please. saying, "if they don't<br>like it they can move to gnome or what ever" is kinda not what this list
<br>is all about.<br><br>Mr Bulldog wrote:<br>> some people are two finicky about small things and if they don't like<br>> it they can move to gnome or what ever for the time being. Some<br>> features I don't like in Kde is the amount of options in it, but what
<br>> do I care, looking at the overall picture at least I can get something<br>> done much easier than gnome or other desktop environments. Really we<br>> should be praising all the kde developers, if you don't want all of
<br>> the great features try kde light. However this argument is just<br>> rambling on now.<br>><br>> On 21/02/06, *Aaron J. Seigo* <<a href="mailto:aseigo@kde.org">aseigo@kde.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:aseigo@kde.org">
aseigo@kde.org</a>>><br>> wrote:<br>><br>> On Tuesday 21 February 2006 12:06, Janne Ojaniemi wrote:<br>> > But couldn't the same functionality be achieved without those frames<br>><br>> of course. however, it is not as easy as some tend to think to fix
<br>> due to the<br>> added complexity of the code. sometimes it's not even possible to<br>> get it<br>> right without rather large changes. and that was my point: it's<br>> not fast<br>
> work, it's not easy work, it's not fun work and it's almost always<br>> thankless<br>> at the end. the rather flippant "change these 10 things to make it not<br>> crappy!" lists really get tiring after a while; esp after i've
<br>> seen that list<br>> 100 times already.<br>><br>> > that frame the content-area. Since the background of the<br>> content-area and<br>> > the background of the window are different color (by default at
<br>> least), you<br>> > have the differentiation right there, without having to use grey<br>> lines.<br>><br>> ... and test with different colour schemes and widget styles.<br>><br>> > I think that all else being equal, an app that looks good is
<br>> > inherintly more usable than an app that doesn't look good.<br>><br>> well, it may be more pleasant to use. not always the same thing as<br>> "more<br>> usable"; it can certainly help win over users though, and make
<br>> using the<br>> software more enjoyable.<br>><br>> > of "usability" or "cleanliness". I maintain that we CAN have a<br>> featurefull<br>> > and useful apps that look smooth, clean and gorgerous. It can be
<br>> done.<br>><br>> i agree. unfortunately the chances of it being accomplished fully are<br>> diminished by the number of people who talk but can't/won't/don't<br>> actually<br>> help write the fixes. this is the biggest conundrum.
<br>><br>> > > see ... if you feel that kde is resistant to "let's fix the<br>> interfaces"<br>> > > i'd like to know what communicates that and then hopefully fix<br>> it. it may
<br>> > > be a real, valid issue within the project, if may be a matter<br>> of public<br>> > > perception, it may be a problem in communication, it may be<br>> that we don't<br>> > > have a properly visible means to bring in these contributions.
<br>> i could<br>> > > guess, but only you know this answer when it comes to you and your<br>> > > statement above.<br>> ><br>> > I'm afraid that it's nothing really tangible that I could point
<br>> with my<br>> > finger and say "it's this thing here". It just seems to me that<br>> KDE is<br>> > somewhat conservative when it comes to design-changes.<br>><br>> mostly due to manpower. we generally spend a lot of effort
<br>> bringing something<br>> functional to the table and that has traditionally left very few<br>> hours for<br>> working on the interfaces. more people working on that would help<br>> immensely.
<br>><br>> > KDE and some KDE-apps have a tendency to feel like they were....<br>> > designed by a committee<br>><br>> this is a problem of success: as the project has grown larger, our<br>
> control<br>> through maintainership hasn't tightened to help shape the growing<br>> tide of<br>> contributions.<br>><br>> > feature in there. Everyone is afraid to remove anything, because
<br>> someone<br>> > put that particular feature there, and people are afraid that<br>> they might<br>> > feel hurt if "their" feature was removed.<br>><br>> at least for me, it has little to do with being afraid of hurting
<br>> the author's<br>> feelings. my biggest problem is how many people bitch about every<br>> fucking<br>> change. i am personally fed up with that particular class of<br>> ingrates who
<br>> employ "scream, cry and whine" reaction to changes, doubly so when<br>> they are<br>> users who contribute exactly 0 back and within a month or two are<br>> just fine<br>> with the change.
<br>><br>> it wouldn't take so much bravery if people didn't bitch and moan<br>> over every<br>> attempted change. worst is when their pointless bitching is<br>> ignored, they<br>> turn around accuse us of "not listening to users". it wouldn't
<br>> take so much<br>> bravery if more people were making changes and proving it could be<br>> done. it<br>> wouldn't take so much bravery if more people spent real coding<br>> hours on these
<br>> issues with each other so it wasn't such a lone-wolf task.<br>><br>> ask the people who look after things like capitalization standards<br>> or any of<br>> the other similar issues. it's really pathetic. for every one
<br>> person fixing<br>> things, we have 100 talking about fixing them and 1000 bitching<br>> about how<br>> they aren't fixed they way they want.<br>><br>> i still get emails and comments on my blog about icon zooming in
<br>> the panel.<br>><br>> no wonder so many people stop trying to change things: there is a<br>> real<br>> cultural problem amongst the hard core userbase. we've been<br>> working hard to
<br>> fix cultural issues within the project, it'd be nice to see a<br>> similar effort<br>> from the users closest to the project as well. there is a reason<br>> other<br>> projects have just stopped listening altogether and decided to
<br>> make every<br>> decision and centrally made policy decision, users be damned.<br>><br>> --<br>> Aaron J. Seigo<br>> GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
<br>><br>> Full time KDE developer sponsored by Trolltech<br>> (<a href="http://www.trolltech.com">http://www.trolltech.com</a>)<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> kde-quality mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:kde-quality@kde.org">kde-quality@kde.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kde-quality@kde.org">kde-quality@kde.org</a>><br>> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality">
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality</a><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> kde-quality mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:kde-quality@kde.org">kde-quality@kde.org</a><br>> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality</a>
<br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>kde-quality mailing list<br><a href="mailto:kde-quality@kde.org">kde-quality@kde.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-quality
</a><br></blockquote></div><br>