<html><head></head><body>OK, I was expecting discussion and search for improving the situation.<br>
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But if without any other reason than "it is currently like this" no change is even thinkable, then let it stay the way it is.<br>
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I find it sad, but well, you're on charge.<br>
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Regards,<br>
Olivier<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 12 septembre 2017 08:14:58 GMT+02:00, laurent Montel <montel@kde.org> a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Le mardi 12 septembre 2017, 07:54:24 CEST Olivier Churlaud a écrit :<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br /> <br /> I thought about your answers and I think that the problem is that Korganizer<br /> adds a level of complexity : Kontact aggregates several applications in<br /> one. But Korganizer does the same. So if you want to use the journal (idem<br /> for tasks) you can do: Kontact > Journal or Kontact > Korganizer > Journal.<br /> <br /> I think the second path is not really relevant and quite complex.<br /> <br /> What if we still used the same code for all apps (as it is now) and provide<br /> 3 separate entry points (understand executable binaries) : Korganizer,<br /> Tasks, Journal? Names can change of course.<br /> <br /> This way a user would now what they are using and what the scope of the<br /> program is. If a user wants to easily switch between them, Kontact's<br /> purposes is exactly that.<br /> <br /> What do you think?<br /></blockquote>Hi,<br /><br />So people use korganizer as single apps. He doesn"t want to know 3 differents <br />program name for it.<br />For sure we will not split korganizer in 3 different apps.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> <br /> Cheers,<br /> Olivier<br /> <br /> Le 4 septembre 2017 05:49:32 GMT+02:00, "Daniel Vrátil" <dvratil@kde.org> a <br /></blockquote>écrit :<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;">On Sunday, 3 September 2017 23:35:12 CEST Olivier Churlaud wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hello,<br /> <br /> I would like to do a very bold proposition.<br /> <br /> To give some context, Korganizer is the KDE application I use the<br /></blockquote><br />most after<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> KMail. And even though, I have trouble to switch between the views<br /></blockquote><br />that are<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> quite mixed :<br /> - Agenda<br /> - Month<br /> - Timeline<br /> - Tasks<br /> - Journal<br /> <br /> Korganizer's strenght is in the event management : so I imagine a<br /></blockquote><br />calendar,<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> with 3 views:<br /> - all the events in a list,<br /> - an agenda (with a focus on a month or a week or a day)<br /> - timelines (without focus, just endless lines that loads when<br /></blockquote><br />shown, or<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> based on the 3 agenda focus).<br /> <br /> First comment here : Month shall be a subset of agenda, which is<br /></blockquote><br />currently<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> not the case, and I find it always strange.<br /></blockquote><br />Agenda has some very special features that make no sense in month view<br />- for<br />example you can display the day's/week's agenda for each calendar next<br />to each<br />other, rather than mixed into a single view. This makes no sense in<br />month<br />view. So code-wise the separation makes sense. UI-wise, there can be<br />improvements, e.g. just by having "Day", "Week", "Month" buttons in the<br /><br />toolbar.<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Tasks: Now that Zanshin is mature, why do we need to have tasks in<br /> Korganizer? Zanshin beeing well integrated in Kontact, I would remove<br /></blockquote><br />that<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> from korganizer, making it easier to use.<br /></blockquote><br />Zanshin can be a good alternative to Tasks, but it lacks lots of the<br />funcionality and richness that KOrganizer has for tasks, as Zanshin is<br />designed with certain workflow in mind. I'm fairly sure many people,<br />especially<br />in enterprise, would not like that.<br /><br />It would also requires Zanshin to become a KDE Applications (it's in<br />Extragear) and start having regular releases, which is up to Kévin.<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> And what is Journal? I have no answer for this, but I think that a<br /> specialized application integrated in Korganizer would anyway be<br /></blockquote><br />better.<br /><br />Journal is like your diary - you can create journal logs for specific<br />dates.<br />Useful for meeting logs.<br /><br />Why do you think that a dedicated application would be better? UX/UI<br />wise I'm<br />pretty sure this could be fixed on KOrganizer level - like not showing<br />event-<br />only calendars in Journal etc.) Code-wise it would not help at all,<br />since you<br />would be recreating lots of the code that KOrganizer already has and<br />shares<br />between events, tasks and journals....we want less code to maintain,<br />not more<br />;)<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> This would drastically simplify the toolbar menu, and the Korganizer<br /></blockquote><br />code.<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> In term of UX, currently it's hard to know in which view and which<br /></blockquote><br />content<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> we are : events ? journal ? tasks ? are they the same content ? well<br /></blockquote><br />if<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> not, being in the same window with the exact same menus is very<br /></blockquote><br />strange for<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> users....<br /></blockquote><br />On one hand, that's the beauty of it: a uniform UI for everything. I<br />would<br />hate it if I would have to toggle visible tasks differently than<br />visible<br />events just because they would be different applications...<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> What do you think ? If you think it is relevant and a good idea, I'm<br /></blockquote><br />ok to<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> do a patch in this direction. But since it would be quite a<br /></blockquote><br />destructive<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> patch, I think we must talk about this. And I'm open to discussion<br /></blockquote><br />and<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> argumentation, if it is possible.<br /></blockquote><br />I would prefer a constructive patch instead :-) Identify the actual<br />issues and<br />create solutions for them (e.g. "Remove 'Agenda' from toolbar", "Make<br />'Day'<br />and 'Week' actions enabled even if 'Month' is selected", etc.). I'm<br />sure many<br />of those issues can be fixed just by having a different KXmlUI rc file<br />for<br />standalone KOrganizer and for KParts....<br /><br /><br />Dan<br /><br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"> Cheers,<br /> Olivier<br /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br /></pre></blockquote></div><br>
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