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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126369/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126369/</a>
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<p style="margin-top: 0;">On May 29th, 2016, 5:51 p.m. CEST, <b>Kai Uwe Broulik</b> wrote:</p>
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<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126369/diff/4/?file=467228#file467228line909" style="color: black; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">src/kstatusnotifieritem.cpp</a>
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<td bgcolor="#fdfebc" width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "> <span class="k">if</span> <span class="p">(</span><span class="o">!</span><span class="n">movie</span><span class="p">)</span> <span class="p">{</span></pre></td>
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<td bgcolor="#fdfebc" width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "> <span class="n">QtMac</span><span class="o">::</span><span class="n">setBadgeLabelText</span><span class="p">(</span><span class="n">QStringLiteral</span><span class="p">(</span><span class="s">"!"</span><span class="p">));</span></pre></td>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">i18nc please</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 6:45 p.m. CEST, <b>René J.V. Bertin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I'm not sure what to expect here, what effect is using <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">i18nc("!")</code> going to have? AFAIK the exclamation mark is pretty universal, and translating it might reduce the label's effectiveness. I've tried many options to label the Dock icon (that's what we're talking about here) and found no better alternative.</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 6:50 p.m. CEST, <b>Kai Uwe Broulik</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">We cannot assume that. Greek does not use the "?" question mark symbol, for example. That's where the "c" comes in, you explain translators that you exactly want ("one symbol")</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 7:15 p.m. CEST, <b>Burkhard Lück</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">To say "one symbol" is not sufficient for translators.
You need to explain what this char is used for, its role in the gui, see http://api.kde.org/frameworks/ki18n/html/prg_guide.html#good_ctxt</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 7:25 p.m. CEST, <b>René J.V. Bertin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Not to appear stubborn, but in your example, wouldn't a Greek font use the appropriate symbol at the place of the question mark? Or do I need to specify the <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">U+</code> Unicode code for that, like I do for the bullet?</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 8:14 p.m. CEST, <b>Burkhard Lück</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">You say "the exclamation mark is pretty universal" and that maybe true, but what about locales not having something like an exclamation mark?
translation teams have their locale with their specific character set <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">and</em> style guides how to translate
E. g in the german translation team we never translate an exclamation mark at the end of a messages literally, it nearly always is replaced by a period
context like noun or verb or U+ Unicode code have no meaning for translators</p></pre>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 11:07 p.m. CEST, <b>René J.V. Bertin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The point should have become moot with my last revision which uses a symbol rather than a punctuation mark. But I would think that (at least nowadays) even those locales you mention have been exposed to the kind of universal sign language that icons are. This is not written text that is to be translated in a semantically and gramatically correct way. It's a pictogram. Look at the icons shown in alert or question dialogs, or the icons shown on vehicle dashboards. The text accompanying them is translated, but not the icon, even if that icon contains a symbol like an exclamation or question mark. Or does KDE replace those icons with something else for locales that don't have exclamation and/or question marks?</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Sadly I don't know of an easy way to check what Apple themselves do in this context. Alert dialogs mostly show the application icon rather than an icon that conveys the nature of the alert, and there's evidently no doubt that <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">those</em> icons don't depend on locale.</p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left: 1em; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">A propos: is there a way to raise this issue among translators in a broader context (if possible without having to sign up for yet another ML ;))? Now that the issue has come up I would like to describe what I was looking for (badge the Dock icon with an alert icon, then creating a text-based simulacrum when it turned out impossible to use an icon directly) and see what the general consensus is.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Or will that only reach the same people who've already been commenting here?</p></pre>
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<p>- René J.V.</p>
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<p>On May 29th, 2016, 8:03 p.m. CEST, René J.V. Bertin wrote:</p>
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<div>Review request for KDE Software on Mac OS X and KDE Frameworks.</div>
<div>By René J.V. Bertin.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated May 29, 2016, 8:03 p.m.</i></p>
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<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
knotifications
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
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<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">OS X has a number of limitations in features used by KNotifications, notably concerning the status notifier item (aka system tray icon).</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">This RR will likely evolve to address multiple limitations (at least also the NeedsAttention state); at the moment it only proposes an emulation of <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">QMenu::addSection</code>.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;"><code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">QMenu::addSection</code> works by adding a QAction with a "texted separator" at the insertion location. Texted separators do not exist in menu items in the OS X "global" menubar (they become regular separators), and Qt will not provide a platform-specific implementation. Loss of the section title text is maybe not always an issue, but I think it is in the system tray menu. I therefore propose to emulate <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">QMenu::addSection</code> by replacing the texted separator with an inactive (disabled) menu item that shows the text, followed by a standard separator. Menus in the notification area are much less subject to interface guidelines, so the presence of an item icon is acceptable and IMO useful for the <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">titleAction</code>.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Testing the NeedsAttention state with the tests/kstatusnotifieritemtest application leads to disappearance of the menubar icon, i.e. the access to the notifier menu becomes invisible rather than blinking (which is what I get on Linux using the same packaging). Adding a few qDebug statements shows that the <code style="text-rendering: inherit;color: #4444cc;padding: 0;white-space: normal;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;">attentionIcon</code> is empty.
I'd appreciate a crash course how this feature is supposed to work, so I can see if an OS X implementation might be feasible.</p></pre>
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
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<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">On OS X 10.9.5 with Qt 5.5.1 and frameworks 5.17.0 .</p></pre>
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
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<li>CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: grey">(7cf8379)</span></li>
<li>src/CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: grey">(7eb3125)</span></li>
<li>src/knotification.cpp <span style="color: grey">(352cf49)</span></li>
<li>src/kstatusnotifieritem.cpp <span style="color: grey">(27abfb8)</span></li>
<li>src/kstatusnotifieritemprivate_p.h <span style="color: grey">(8fdfd4c)</span></li>
<li>src/notifybypopup.cpp <span style="color: grey">(7d69a36)</span></li>
<li>tests/kstatusnotifieritemtest.cpp <span style="color: grey">(973fc85)</span></li>
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<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/126369/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View Diff</a></p>
<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">File Attachments </h1>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/12/16/286037ae-07b3-454a-a226-1748854493a1__kstatusnotifieritemtest-systray.png">the systray icon & menu created by kstatusnotifieritemtest . This application has no icon to show.</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/12/16/4fc9d4e4-1537-478c-9196-94cbc17b6b7c__kwalletmanager-systray.png">The systray icon and menu created by the KDE4 kwalletmanager (code has an equivalent patch)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/12/16/fc48a963-2e18-4396-bd38-062d41688118__Apple-systray-menu-with-icons.png">An Apple systray icon+menu that shows icons (which cannot be hidden)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/12/17/e896e90d-f0a8-43f7-9199-847572832df7__kstatusnotifieritemtest-with-appIcon.png">kstatusnotifieritemtest with added appIcon</a></li>
<li><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2015/12/17/f41081db-8e09-4ea2-95c1-f507c62109d4__kstatusnotifieritemtest-with-appIconattention.png">kstatusnotifieritemtest-with-appIcon+attention.png</a></li>
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