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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/128019/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/128019/</a>
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<p style="margin-top: 0;">On May 26th, 2016, 3:37 p.m. UTC, <b>Matthew Dawson</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">While I appreciate the source of this change (I've almost never hit F1 intending to open the doucmentation myself), I don't think a RR is the right place to discuss changes to our default shortcuts. This takes a small survey of a small section of our community. I think the VDG would probably be the best place to have a discussion about what help, if any, is triggered and on what shortcut (though if there is a better source I'm happy to take their input instead). Once there is a consensus, then I'm happy to have those changes implemented.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Since there is a global way to disable F1 for people who find this annoying now, this is a -2 from me. People annoyed at F1 can fix their issue now without code changes while we figure out the best plan forward.</p></pre>
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<p>On May 26th, 2016, 10:04 p.m. UTC, <b>Albert Astals Cid</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The proper way of doing this is having metrics reporting that show how quickly after pressing F1 you close khelpcenter, unfortunately the user metric reporting got blocked on "this is spying our users", so now we don't have any data that can back my claim that F1 as a shortcut is useless or someone else's claim that it is vital.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I will discard this and stop pursuing the idea, it's clear we're stationary and people are scared of change or even getting the data to pursue change.</p></pre>
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<p>On May 26th, 2016, 10:09 p.m. UTC, <b>Matthew Dawson</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">To be clear, I'm not against this change, I'm just against having the conversation about this change in <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">this</em> communication channel. Like I said, if this is taken to something like VDG, and the consensus there is to remove this shortcut, I'll happily take this (even if there are some objections).</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Please don't stop pursuing this! I agree the current behaviour is suboptimal and something new should be found. My goal isn't to be stationary.</p></pre>
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<p>On May 26th, 2016, 10:13 p.m. UTC, <b>Albert Astals Cid</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The kde-usability mailing list is subscribed here. In my opinion that's enough to get usability people to comment, your -2 means you think it is not.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I do not have time to do more than what i have done, i have 29 okular review requests pending and i should really get to review them this century, so no, i'm not going to pursue this further.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">If you think the current behavior is suboptimal maybe you can be convinced to do it ;)</p></pre>
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<p>On May 26th, 2016, 10:19 p.m. UTC, <b>Matthew Dawson</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I don't find RR are a great place for this type of conversation, especially something that may take a wider vision. If kde-usability comes to a consensus, that's good enough for me.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Fair enough on your time constraints, I use okular all the time and appreciate your work in it :). I'll see what I can do about it, though I have the same time problems.</p></pre>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Just for the record: The usability team still definitely wants metrics! In fact, I think we cannot ever create really excellent software without them.
It just has to be opt-in, not opt-out.
I do not see where metrics as such got blocked. If you got that impression out of the Neon install counting discussions, you have misinterpreted it.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Oh and yes, Albert is right: We do have input from the usability team. Both Heiko and I are against assigning F1 to something other than getting help. It does not have to be the traditional help syste, with text in a new window, but it has to be some sort of help.</p></pre>
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<p>- Thomas</p>
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<p>On May 26th, 2016, 10:04 p.m. UTC, Albert Astals Cid wrote:</p>
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<div>Review request for KDE Frameworks and KDE Usability.</div>
<div>By Albert Astals Cid.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated May 26, 2016, 10:04 p.m.</i></p>
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<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
kconfig
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
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<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">F1 is too important and too easy to trigger for something like Help, that be honest you don't need a shortcut for (since you don't invoke Help that often).</p></pre>
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
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<li>src/gui/kstandardshortcut.cpp <span style="color: grey">(6be6309)</span></li>
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<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/128019/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View Diff</a></p>
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