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This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/119988/">https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/119988/</a>
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<p style="margin-top: 0;">On August 29th, 2014, noon UTC, <b>David Edmundson</b> wrote:</p>
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<a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/119988/diff/1/?file=308188#file308188line99" style="color: black; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">src/plasma/packagestructure.h</a>
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(Diff revision 1)
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<td colspan="4"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; ">private:</pre></td>
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<td bgcolor="#fdfebc" width="50%"><pre style="font-size: 8pt; line-height: 140%; margin: 0; "><span class="cp">#define K_EXPORT_PLASMA_PACKAGE(libname, classname) \</span></pre></td>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">would removing a #define count as a SIC?</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:12 p.m. UTC, <b>Aaron J. Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin-left: 1em; border-left: 2px solid #d0d0d0; padding-left: 10px;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Yes, but I don't think it maters for two reasons:</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">1) DataEngine also had both forms but only one actually currently works; so it is on the face of it <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">broken</em> .. removing that is the same as this change at the end of the day<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
2) There are no Plasma 5 PackageStructure plugins out there except the share dataengine in plasma-workspace (which itself was done in a very odd manner)</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Neither reason is particularly <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">good</em> from the perspective of strict policy adherence, but they demonstrate that it is a harmless violation. May as well get it right imho.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I'd add a third consideration as well: It is quite evident that plasma-framework was release before it was ready. The plugin loading is entirely inconsistent with DataEngines using JSON and the Qt5 plugin loading an the rest of the plugins not. Some of the plugins are obviously not being used at all due to changes brought about with QML2 and that probably contributed to the lack of attention. However, PluginLoader quite obviously went through a partial refactoring that was never completed. It's a little brash to commit to source and binary compatibility when things are in that shape.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:21 p.m. UTC, <b>Hrvoje Senjan</b> wrote:</p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Yes, but I don't think it maters for two reasons</p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Can users of Plasma 5.0.x can expect a broken desktop once KF5 5.2 is out (if this patch goes in)?</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:25 p.m. UTC, <b>David Edmundson</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Whilst I agree that the frameworks situation sucks, I'm not sure we have a choice.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Frameworks 5.2 releases independently of plasma-workspace. At which point there is a point in time where one can't compile plasma-workspace.<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
We could make it go via a no-op that does nothing.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:32 p.m. UTC, <b>Martin Gräßlin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">if one doesn't recompile it should still work, shouldn't it? Otherwise I'd suggest to wrap the define in a ifndef NO_DEPRECATED block to keep SIC (even if it means that we carry deprecated stuff for the time being, but after all that's the point of deprecation).</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:46 p.m. UTC, <b>Aaron J. Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">"Can users of Plasma 5.0.x can expect a broken desktop once KF5 5.2 is out (if this patch goes in)?"</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Not due to the issue you are responding to, no.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The real issue for breakeage is the use of plasmaquick in Workspaces which violates the contract between Frameworks and Workspaces (due to being differnet products) by using a library in workspaces from framweorks that does not have a binary compatibility guarantee and which has no installed headers. I am at a loss as to how this could have shipped in this fashion.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">One possibility is to ship libplasmaquick as-is (with the PackageStructures duplicated and ShellPluginLoader) and simply remove its usage from Plasma Workspace (as already done in 119989), and then at some later point remove it from libplasmaquick and simply require a certain version # of Frameworks for Plasma Desktop. Requiring a minium v# of libraries would be a pretty normal state of affairs.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">If the intention is to allow Frameworks 5.2 to be used with Plasma Desktop 5.0, then that is probably the only realistic option. In which case the Plasma team ought to just install the headers for libplasmaquick and make it official. There is no point to requiring binary compatibility and trying to pretend a library is private.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">"At which point there is a point in time where one can't compile plasma-workspace."</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">An alternative is to state compatible versions of Frameworks with plasma-workspace. Either way, it doesn't resolve the DataEngine situation where it may be SC but certainly is not functional.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Currently relatively few people are using Plasma 5; I would urge the Plasma team to come up with a long-term solution before that changes. Carrying the impact of these decisions for 5+ years after Plasma 5 actually has users is .. well .. it's up to you.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">If it is decided not to merge this patchset, that's fine by me. I can probably re-work the related plasma-workspace patch set to use the older KService based plugin loading. It would just be nice to know <em style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">which</em> path (JSON or .desktop files) is being taken.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 12:50 p.m. UTC, <b>Aaron J. Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">"Otherwise I'd suggest to wrap the define in a ifndef NO_DEPRECATED block to keep SIC"</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">This will ensure things still compile, but the result will be plugins that do not get loaded. If the old defines are desired to be kept, then PluginLoader should probably be extended to try to load with KPluginTrader first and then if that fails try KServiceTypeTrader. Or vice versa (KServiceTypeTrader first and then KPluginTrader). Which is tried first should reflect the long-term plan for plugin loading as that will be the common path (and so should be as fast as reasonably possible).</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Note that currently DataEngine is broken for plugins compiled with the old define, so this is an issue that needs addressing with or without this patch set.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 1:04 p.m. UTC, <b>Marco Martin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">"In which case the Plasma team ought to just install the headers for libplasmaquick and make it official. There is no point to requiring binary compatibility and trying to pretend a library is private."</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I am not sure about the current state, maybe ConfigView should be a bit different, but I'm fine with officially release libpolasmaquick with at lease View and Dialog.<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
Maybe configview and its models, but not i'm not completely sure about it since i don't like them too much to be there, but they are used/needed, may be moved to a similar thing in workspace, or made more generic by making them not views but to create windows from QML</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 2:10 p.m. UTC, <b>Aaron J. Seigo</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">That's kind of the problem, though: you may not be comfortable with the library, but you've (the entire team) already committed to binary and source compatibility by putting the library in a different product (Frameworks).</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">However it goes, my current work project's requirements dictate the need to pick libplasmaquick out of plasma-workspace and I will continue to work on that so that it eventually becomes a moot point.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Since this is an issues which the Plasma team apparently has no clear path in mind, let's just assume for the same of argument that libplasmaquick remains exactly as it is in plasma-framework. What I actually need your input on is what plugin loading mechanism is to be used:</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">a) KServiceTypeTrader <br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
b) KPluginTrader<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
c) KPlugintTrader with a KServiceTypeTrade fallback<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
d) KServiceTypeTrader with a KPluginTrader fallback</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">In fact, I'll open a new review request that reflects that more clearly.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 2:22 p.m. UTC, <b>David Edmundson</b> wrote:</p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Either way, it doesn't resolve the DataEngine situation where it may be SC but certainly is not functional.</p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">There's some crossed communication I think. I'm not asking for anyone to resolve it, I'm wanting it to not break things.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">I'm happy with your changes. If what we have doesn't work now, it can proceed to not work, and we can add the additional new thing that fixes it. That's all great.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">What concerns me is the idea that it would stop the rest of plasma-workspace stable compiling for a whole month. That would have most packagers screaming at us.</p>
<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">We just need to keep the old #define till frameworks 5.4</p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The real issue for breakeage is the use of plasmaquick </p>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">That's a completely different topic and we should try not to get distracted by it.</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 3:05 p.m. UTC, <b>Marco Martin</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">"We just need to keep the old #define till frameworks 5.4"<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
do you think it may be removed after 5.4 or better leaving it for the time being?<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
dataengine already has both, so i would put as a policy<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
c) KPlugintTrader with a KServiceTypeTrade fallback<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
K_EXPORT_PLASMA_DATAENGINE K_EXPORT_PLASMA_PACKAGE etc, may be wrapped in an #idef no_deprecated</p></pre>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 3:12 p.m. UTC, <b>David Edmundson</b> wrote:</p>
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<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Once we have Plasma 5.1.0 out, I think it will be OK to sneakily remove it.<br style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;" />
Your call.</p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left: 1em; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">if we do it, it may be worth to do in one go for dataengines, applets appletscripts as well</p></pre>
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<p>- Marco</p>
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<p>On August 29th, 2014, 2:20 p.m. UTC, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:</p>
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<div>Review request for KDE Frameworks and Plasma.</div>
<div>By Aaron J. Seigo.</div>
<p style="color: grey;"><i>Updated Aug. 29, 2014, 2:20 p.m.</i></p>
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<b style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt;">Repository: </b>
plasma-framework
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Description </h1>
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<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">This patch set does the following:</p>
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<li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">tidy up the data engine plugin loading code</li>
<li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">make PackageStructure plugins use the json method as with DataEngines</li>
<li style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: normal;">remove ShellPackage; it moves to live with plasmashell (review #119989)</li>
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<p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">The goal here is to get rid of the plasmaquick library as much as possible. It was unnecessary in the first place since PackageStructure supports plugins. The only potentially controversial change here is to move PackageStructure to use the json-based plugin loading. That seems to be the more modern approach, but plugin loading in libplasma is currently a mix of the old and the new. As PackageStructure changed API in plasma-framework, meaning any existing plugins from 4.x would need updating anyways, this seems a safe enough change to make as it should impact exactly zero plugins out there currently.</p></pre>
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Testing </h1>
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<pre style="margin: 0; padding: 0; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; white-space: -pre-wrap; white-space: -o-pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;"><p style="padding: 0;text-rendering: inherit;margin: 0;line-height: inherit;white-space: inherit;">Ran a full Plasma Desktop session.</p></pre>
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<h1 style="color: #575012; font-size: 10pt; margin-top: 1.5em;">Diffs</b> </h1>
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<li>src/plasma/packagestructure.h <span style="color: grey">(fb32c22a6e7df1528b3d7a5b30b94c60a85a93e3)</span></li>
<li>src/plasma/pluginloader.cpp <span style="color: grey">(d2ba5ca2d3a96fe6f1ce26be41df3b0954b924df)</span></li>
<li>src/plasma/private/packages.cpp <span style="color: grey">(5eb6f0021392257634dfd958c940b2945989e48b)</span></li>
<li>src/plasma/private/packages_p.h <span style="color: grey">(0833a4ed1b5704efffccade5e52589878e8b4957)</span></li>
<li>src/plasmaquick/CMakeLists.txt <span style="color: grey">(1ed7c67efcba0e6dbef1ff929b176090786503de)</span></li>
<li>src/plasmaquick/private/packages.h <span style="color: grey">(7498832d0537611903c13e544db6486bab163dd3)</span></li>
<li>src/plasmaquick/private/packages.cpp <span style="color: grey">(52758482230d271712e4bb3b6d33f8fdeaa848a8)</span></li>
<li>src/plasmaquick/shellpluginloader.h <span style="color: grey">(6c56e5f7b269c3af7587a58cbe104468a2c679c4)</span></li>
<li>src/plasmaquick/shellpluginloader.cpp <span style="color: grey">(2824760e6f64a694bd14b46d2f80151304e3e4d3)</span></li>
<li>src/plasma/dataengine.h <span style="color: grey">(d87a6f8361c892a249374a5c9da7e84836195156)</span></li>
<li>src/plasma/package.cpp <span style="color: grey">(6ad332167bb83c2f794f9f5d059e9f369ad33841)</span></li>
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<p><a href="https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/119988/diff/" style="margin-left: 3em;">View Diff</a></p>
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