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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 2021-03-26 à 20:02, Valorie
Zimmerman a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACpu0260315PwxAn6wfVNJE8+OG_f1Y1d4G_h0FxW6wNZBuq_g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Hi Niccolò,</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:26
PM Niccolò Ve <<a
href="mailto:niccolo.venerandi@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">niccolo.venerandi@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>Hi.</div>
<div><br>
<div>> Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and
will not be allowed. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is... plain out wrong. Off topic means off
topic.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The KDE Community list exists, according to the
subscription page: <a
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The purpose of the
mailing list is to provide a place for non-technical
information and discussions which are relevant to the KDE
community as a whole. All people who consider themselves to
be part of the KDE community are invited to join.
Conversations on the mailing list are respectful,
considerate, polite and constructive following our KDE Code
of Conduct.<br>
The list collects announcements, information and results
from discussions in other places and offers a place to get
feedback on non-technical questions or plans of relevance
for the whole KDE community.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anything else is off-topic. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<div>A RMS reply to a thread about RMS is NOT off topic.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The original post was about the FSF and their governance.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>First of all, I find it unfortunate to be discussing messages
most readers don't even have access to, and I want to thank
Niccolò for reporting his experience.</p>
<p>Although I am not sure which exact thread Niccolò referred to,
having followed kde-community fairly well recently, I very much
doubt that the thread he replied to was not about RMS (even if it
was also about FSF and its governance).<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACpu0260315PwxAn6wfVNJE8+OG_f1Y1d4G_h0FxW6wNZBuq_g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> Unfortunately "RMS pro/con" hijacked that thread and
caused this list to be moderated. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<div>If you want to shutdown the discussion, just say
so.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did so. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p><br>
</p>
<p>I don't know if the following is what Niccolò meant, but if some
messages sent to this forum were indeed refused due to topicality,
there is a problem.</p>
<p>This mailing list is not a web forum and threads cannot be
"locked". If the new administration now rejects specific
discussions which were already started, replies to the specific
(sub-)threads indicating shutdown should be sent, so that
participants do not waste their time writing mails which end up
rejected.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If, as Valorie seems to say, the worry goes beyond specific
discussions, we first need to avoid false dichotomies. Topicality
is relative, and messages about RMS are certainly neither the most
topical nor the least topical on this forum.</p>
<p>If forum administrators consider any discussion about RMS (or any
other topic which many/most participants consider potentially
topical) to be too little topical for kde-community, this should
be communicated *with sufficient prominence*. Indicating that a
topic is rejected in a mail is better than nothing, but has
extremely low prominence in a mail titled "Apology".</p>
<p>The ideal place to warn about rejections would be in the forum's
description. We could, for example, either:</p>
<ol>
<li>specify in kde-community's description that discussion about
RMS is never considered sufficiently topical</li>
<li>specify in kde-community's description that only highly
topical discussion is accepted</li>
<li>or add a link from kde-community's description to a page
clarifying its filtering criteria</li>
</ol>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACpu0260315PwxAn6wfVNJE8+OG_f1Y1d4G_h0FxW6wNZBuq_g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div>The fact that RMS is not "the issue" (he's surely
_an_ issue...) does not change that <br>
</div>
<div>the kde community email was about RMS. I sent an
email 10 hours <b>before</b> this apology. <br>
</div>
<div>It was rejected just<b> now.</b> As offtopic.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I live in the US; most of the other mods live in Europe.
If they had wanted to act on your email they could have done
so, but I believe I was the one to reject your post. There
was nothing time-sensitive in it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div>I did not like that thread, but this handling of
the situation is plain out bad. This apology</div>
<div>mail only made things worse. If I did not know
about KDE, I'd say that they are censoring</div>
<div>the discussion. Instead I'm just embarrassed.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Requiring lists to be on-topic is not censorship, which
*governments* do. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I am not sure that defining censorship is helpful to this
discussion, but note that censorship is not only governmental.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACpu0260315PwxAn6wfVNJE8+OG_f1Y1d4G_h0FxW6wNZBuq_g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_quote">[...]
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno ven 26 mar
2021 alle ore 20:36 Valorie Zimmerman <<a
href="mailto:valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello my friends,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I put this list on emergency moderation, I
felt that this was necessary. It still seems so, but
I want to lift moderation as soon as possible. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I may have played a part in continuing the
negative thread that "wouldn't die" by expressing my
own opinion. I should have followed my own advice
and walked away after writing my email and then
removed parts which expressed a personal opinion. </div>
<div><br>
While I may disagree with others about the value of
RMS to Free Software, he is not the issue. The more
organizations I've been involved with, the more I
realize the value of good governance. The FSF has
been critical to the growth of Free Software, and
the recent news about their Board is very worrying. <br>
<br>
My statement did not do anything to convey that or
to help, and for that I am truly sorry. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Posts about Richard Stallman are off-topic and
will not be allowed. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to those of you who called my attention to
my part in all of this. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All the best to each of you, to KDE and all of
the Free software communities,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Valorie</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><a href="http://about.me/valoriez"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://about.me/valoriez</a> -
pronouns: she/her<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Niccolò Venerandi<br>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><a href="http://about.me/valoriez" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://about.me/valoriez</a> -
pronouns: she/her<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
This mail's original content (non-quoted parts) is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 4.0.
Philippe Cloutier
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.philippecloutier.com">http://www.philippecloutier.com</a></pre>
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