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<p>Thanks for bringing this up Christoph, hi Nate,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 2020-05-29 à 12:15, Nate Graham a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:84cd1999-63a6-0b5a-aa09-40139974dedd@kde.org">I agree
that it's not very useful right now. I would recommend expanding
it, because some projects truly are more beginner-friendly than
others, just due to the nature of the code itself. However in the
absence of that effort, removing it would probably make sense.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Nate, considering that you created this section[1] and that it
saw little change in the 2 years since, you should feel free to
remove it if you think that's best.</p>
<p>For my part, I agree that the section has a worthy objective;
there are certainly projects where it is preferable for beginners
to go compared to others. But I agree with both of you that the
current list of projects is little convincing.</p>
<p>I would first say I find it strange to see Elisa there. For sure
being beginner-friendly should be the first element considered to
make that list, but I think we should also consider each project's
importance, to avoid sending beginners to useless projects. In
fact, even beyond the community's interest, it seems to me likely
that contributing to useful (perhaps I should say "used") products
will cause beginners to value their contribution and therefore
enjoy their work, and choose to persevere.<br>
</p>
<p>In Elisa's case, I'm surprised that we suggest a music player I
had never heard of, when - in my book - we already have too many
KDE music players since Amarok arrived. Are we really looking at
having 3 music players (JuK, Amarok and Elisa) without much
difference in target markets? In addition to other applications
which can be used to play music, plus the even more numerous
non-KDE-specific music players?</p>
<p>I have to clarify I don't mean this as an attack on Elisa - as I
wrote, I had never heard about it, and did not even try it. I am
rather writing this because ever since Amarok appeared, I find it
confusing to offer JuK while Amarok is in fact the better option,
and I doubt promoting Elisa goes in the direction of solving that.
But I don't remember reading even 1 line of code from either
Amarok or JuK, and the last time I used JuK was probably before
the last decade, so I could be off-track. If Elisa comes from the
community examining the issue and determining that both JuK and
Amarok are inadequate and that even their code is unsalvageable so
that it's better to start a new product entirely from scratch,
then by all means let's keep promoting it.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Elisa's case aside, I believe the biggest issue is that it's not
clear why the listed projects were put on that list. I believe it
may be ideal for those reasons to be displayed to readers to some
level (possibly as tooltips/footnotes), but as a minimum, the
page's source code should have comments indicating some of the
following:</p>
<ul>
<li>who added the project (and possibly who concurs/disagrees with
the choice)</li>
<li>when the project was added (and ideally - after some time -
when the choice was re-assessed)</li>
<li>what makes the project beginner-friendly:</li>
<ul>
<li>is it based on popular technologies like C++?</li>
<li>is it based on simple languages often taught in schools like
Python?</li>
<li>is its code clearly written, with lots of clarifying
comments?</li>
<li>does its community count numerous seniors who can teach
juniors?</li>
<li>are some of its developers particularly skilled and
interested in training newcomers?</li>
<li>are some of its developers attentive to newcomers who need
to be granted privileges to contribute?<br>
</li>
<li>does it have ample developer documentation explaining the
architecture, indicating which development tools to use, and
how to perform certain tasks?</li>
<li>does the project publish a list of beginner-friendly tasks?</li>
<li>does it have a complete test suite making it less costly to
spot a large share of regressions?<br>
</li>
<li>is it a non-critical product (like a music player or a game)
where a defect would have a lower impact?</li>
</ul>
</ul>
<p>If the section is kept, I recommend to add a comment in its
source indicating that projects added without such indications may
be summarily removed.<br>
</p>
<p>[1]:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Get_Involved&diff=79363&oldid=79304">https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Get_Involved&diff=79363&oldid=79304</a><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:84cd1999-63a6-0b5a-aa09-40139974dedd@kde.org">
<br>
Nate
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/29/20 9:54 AM, Christoph Feck wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello,
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved">https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved</a> says:
<br>
<br>
"Beginner-friendly projects
<br>
<br>
Here are some beginner-friendly projects with
<br>
a variety of opportunities to contribute:
<br>
<br>
* Elisa, a KDE music player
<br>
* Krita, a KDE digital painting suite
<br>
* KDE Connect, a tool to connect and integrate your mobile
device
<br>
"
<br>
<br>
Does this list make any sense? If the list should express the
idea that
<br>
developers of these projects welcome newcomers, does it mean
that our
<br>
other projects are not? If the list is supposed to state that
the source
<br>
code is easy to understand for beginners, shouldn't we add much
simpler
<br>
projects, such as KDE games, utilities, or simple QtQuick
widgets?
<br>
<br>
Right now, I would suggest to just remove this section. Someone
who is
<br>
really new to coding seems misguided.
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Philippe Cloutier
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.philippecloutier.com">http://www.philippecloutier.com</a></pre>
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