<html><head></head><body>No worries David. The situation is past now. Let me know if you have any questions.<div><br></div><div>Andy</div><div> <br><div class="bloop_sign"></div> <p class="gmail_quote" style="color:#000">On July 10, 2018 at 4:38:15 PM, David Wright (<a href="mailto:david.wright12886@gmail.com">david.wright12886@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style=""><span><div><div></div><div>
<title></title>
<div dir="auto">Hi all,
<div dir="auto"><br></div>
<div dir="auto">From reading this and the linked discussion I'm
unsure what the problem is? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br></div>
<div dir="auto">KDE does not in majority of cases ship directly to
users, it does through distros. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br></div>
<div dir="auto">Surely the goal is to speak to distros, even the
esoteric ones like kxstudio and find out what they and their users
would like and work from there?</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, 3 Jun 2018, 21:24 Andy B, <<a href="mailto:anditosan1000@gmail.com">anditosan1000@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Hello team,</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Given recent events and decisions (<a href="https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2018-June/086117.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2018-June/086117.html</a>)
I feel it important to bring more to the table.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Martin’s decision is an unfortunate one. Martin has been with KDE
through thick-and -hin and has earned the respect and love from
many members in the community. He has also earned my respect.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I can’t help but think that the VDG is a tremendously influential
group within KDE. I personally take this as a huge responsibility
and a call to do even better in our approach. We ourselves have
also seen the departures of many influential members. We have lost
leaders one after the other and we have tried to cope with that.
Martin’s and others’ comments about the VDG are welcomed and noted
in this regard.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I share the feeling. The VDG has strived to bring design back to
the table after we started the Plasma 5 cycle, discussing design,
debating direction, etc. However, the VDG has no leader, no vision,
no strong direction. I took these thoughts seriously last year when
I first attended Akademy. I realized that the VDG has a strong
voice, but it was just that, a voice.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I think we are still feeling the fallout from Aaron Siego’s exit
from the community. He provided strong vision, made developers
excited once again for their work, designers rallied behind the
visual vision we had. It felt as though nothing could stop us
because we had a guide to follow. Nothing else mattered.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I think the VDG needs vision and guidance desperately. I am guilty
myself of not providing this. However, I have taken steps to
mitigate this problem. Last year, I decided to engage myself in
revamping System Settings. We are still working through it but
strong work has been done in this past year from me that I have
ever done before.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
My basic idea was to provide an easier way to interact with the
thousands of options that System Settings provides. By doing this
work, I discovered that much more could be sprung up and done for
the entire interface. I also discovered that I cannot take a hard
line on everything that I do. We have been able to deliver more
KCMs by steering design rather than dictating design. My
affiliation with developers in the team has been one of the most
enriching experiences of my life. I feel the VDG will do well in
approaching our developer team the same way. Don’t be married to a
design, learn from technical challenges to your work, adapt quickly
and move on. VDG members will see that by doing this, we open the
door to even more possibilities than we ever thought.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Our developers are the ones putting out thousands of lines of code,
reading on a computer screen all day, and Plasma ones do this all
night as well. They are the foundation of the project. Without our
developers, the VDG can never hope to deliver anything to the
public. Our developers area cautious, full of ideas and a guiding
voice for contributors. We will do well in partnering with a
developer as we work and listen carefully to their counsel.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I feel that our team in the VDG generally receives many newcomers
to the world of Linux and Open Source communities. This is a
challenge for the VDG as we must be open to new contributors but
also need to curve contributions to the right places. For some,
this makes it feel to them that “anything goes”. This is simply not
the case. We ask that if you are a new contributor to the VDG,
start small, learn from others and ask questions. We cannot take
the hard line that our designs are above the project. They are
simply not.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
The VDG also gathers a crowd that is passionate about design but
doesn’t always provide direction. I will take fault for that.
Having been here a while I feel it is my responsibility to provide
more direction to new contributors. I have opened doors, but I have
not learned how to shut them. If our dev team has anything they
want to say, please bring this to me and I will work with
you.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
If anything, I feel that our developer team, the VDG and the Plasma
team in general currently lacks “visual direction”. I say this very
carefully of everyone’s feelings. We maintain our software without
stretching ourselves too far. After all, major changes also mean
major work. By the same token, sometimes as VDG, we don’t dimension
that a graphic design that took us 2 hours to make will take 6
months to deliver. We must think deeper, less like a graphic artist
and more like a project manager. This will bring perspective to our
work.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
I ask that instead of diving into power struggles and control over
code and design, let’s direct that energy into developing a visual
direction. We worked hard on this a couple of years ago. We
developed “simple by default, powerful when needed.” I love that
motto. It drives my thinking when designing for the project.
However, we needed more than that. We started working on developing
our human interface guidelines and the team delivered a strong set.
After the advent of Kirigami, the team needed to revise our HIGs, a
new website container was created for this purpose and every day we
work to modernize and adapt our guidelines. We need to catch up to
the great work that is being done in Kirigami. You should start
seeing more direction from the VDG in this regard soon.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
We are working hard toward a visual direction and less
ambiguity.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Again, we must all work in this. The entire community. If you
want to point a finger, do it at me. I am at fault for not guiding
sooner. I am here to help with that and welcome feedback.</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Thank you,</div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
<br></div>
<div id="m_3290268849561224575bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">
Andy (anditosan)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></div></span></blockquote>
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