<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal">To summarise and expand upon my thoughts on this given the
feedback from a couple of you:<br>
<br>
Essentially I feel we should be concentrating on the promoting the versatility
of KDE ecosphere, and what that means to you as the user. That's really what I
was driving at when I was asking the question 'What do you need KDE to be for
you?' A lot of other desktop environments strangle your workflow tighter than a
Steve Jobs turtleneck, they demand that you work around them and their vision,
whereas I see KDE working for you and with you, no matter where your end point
may be, and what you are doing at that endpoint. Let’s not forget starting
points either, it should be able to grow with you, from one app to many, from
apps to desktop, from desktop to phone and so on. Which is why projects like
KDE for windows are so important, as it provides that first hook to reel users
in with, especially business users, where change to a mid-fifties, conservative,
company director happens one app at a time, over a long period of time.<br>
<br>
Now clearly I am no expert on plasma5, qml & kf5, but I have been given the
impression that it is very flexible (if that's not true then please tell me and
I will go back into the cupboard!); however I appreciate there will be limits
to what it can and can't do, so perhaps the use of 'it could be anything' was
quite rash. <br>
<br>
I thought that maybe by understanding users needs we could either provide
solutions, or provide a signpost to where those solutions may lie. Each users
needs are different, so I thought that by splitting between commercial and
consumer needs we could consider what they are doing right now, what they would
like to see in the future, and how KDE technologies can help with all that. By
commercial needs I am taking about businesses in offices (or wherever), and
consumers being general peeps. Sorry, this is my workplace terminology creeping
in where it probably shouldn't! The reason for this is that I've found that the
way businesses use equipment such as tablets and TVs can be very different to
general consumers. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The KDE terminology issue I’m still not really understanding
I’m afraid. I understand the reasons for the splitting out of KDE (the community),
KF5, Plasma 5 and applications. The problem I have is that distros are still going
to be shipping a KDE variant, apps included. In the absence of KDE supplying a
name for the compilation of its software being used together, then I feel the
distros are going to simply use KDE or KDE 5, like they would with Gnome, or
XFCE, which is wrong, or KF5/Plasma5/Apps which is crap. What’s making this more confusing is that the
VDG are now discussing branding some apps along the lines of ‘Made for…’, which
again I can understand why, as when Windows ships Windows 8, it comes with a picture
viewer, file browser etc. But it’s still Windows 8. The only people who have come
close to giving this new amalgamation of software a name is Kubuntu, with Project
Neon. Maybe something like the ‘KDE Experience’ would be fitting?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t agree that everything should be completely separate
however, there should still be links to one another, otherwise KDE becomes
nothing more than a glorified Github. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope that makes more sense. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kind Regards, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David.</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Andrew Lake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jamboarder@gmail.com" target="_blank">jamboarder@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Hello again, I was going to reply to each response individually but I thought it might be simpler to do one reply.</span><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">First off, thanks for being so so gracious in reviewing the thoughts I shared. As I mentioned these were personal thoughts prompted by my experience at Akademy this year. There's always a risk sharing such thoughts with a community that barely knows me, so I'm grateful for your kindness.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">At the risk of appearing to be defensive about the ideas expressed, permit me to provide some clarifications:</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">* The ideas were not intended to communicate a "stand our ground" or a "don't adventure beyond the desktop" vision. Rather they was intended to say that the desktop doesn't have to be viewed as a now relatively stagnant participant in the ecosystem. I'm not sure anyone in the community thinks that is the case, but to the extent that there is concurrence, it seemed an element of value worth capturing and communicating about ourselves and what we provide.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">* Regarding integration, the ideas were really intended to regard applications, the desktop, devices and the cloud for their unique capabilities and how they can enhance each other. That can include the make-a-tablet/phone/cloud-version-of-[x] approach, but the hope is that it could include other approaches as well. As noted, there are already many efforts in the community that reflect such approaches, so it seemed an element of value worth communicating as well.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">* I'm no personal fan of exclusivity-driven integration. I'm rather a fan of open approaches to technological integration that enables people not hinder them. I've never sensed that as an attribute of KDE and I certainly won't advocate for it now. :-)</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">There are details of the thoughts originally shared that are questionable and have been fairly questioned. For all the words and pictures in the original post that were intended to provide clarity but simply raised more questions, the bullets above hopefully contain the meat of the specific idea originally offered.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Is it perhaps too limited? </div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Maybe there should be more of a focus on KDE community. Valorie's quote from the manifesto seems quite good to me. (It was really great to meet you too Valorie!)</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Is it so broad that it loses focus or spreads us thin?</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I'm not entirely sure what a vision appropriate to our market position should look like, but I totally understand your concerns about lofty but unachievable goals Jaroslaw. Perhaps it might make sense if there are separate visions for our community and for each of the community's products (Frameworks, Plasma, the different apps). Then the folks doing the work can share their vision and better gauge the loftiness of any vision they signing up for. (What I originally offered seems more Frameworks and Plasma related.) How might that approach impact cohesiveness?</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I'm completely and utterly satisfied if whatever is identified as a vision, whether for the community as a whole or for specific products of the community, differs a great deal or entirely from the thoughts I originally shared. Maybe everything is fine and I just need to educate myself more about the road maps already laid out. I confess as a long-term user, an application developer and more recently as a designer contributor, I do occasionally find it challenging to see what the road ahead is. That may be a personal failing. I suspect though that it's not just me. The worst I could be is wrong. :)<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Much respect,</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Andrew</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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