<div dir="ltr">I will add stone to this monument. As i work on Open Source since more than 15 year, i can share my experience about project communication (internal and external)<div><br></div><div>The ML is mandatory. I do not pass all my free time to wait a message. I check and respond when time permit. Open Source management is a very time consuming task. So the time is precious. The way to respond to mail at the right time is perfect. This is exactly the same deal in Office work. You manage the queue of messages and you manage more working time with a better efficiency. I speak a bout technical support.</div><div><br></div><div>Second point in favor of ML is bugzilla which is the angular stone of open source management using Agile method. Bugzilla is a database. Bugzilla as the full history of report, wishes, dysfunction, and fixes provided by the team. Bugzilla is in CC to ML. This cannot be management through a forum. In my cases, Bugzilla is a technical forums, where the core substance of the project can be analyzed. If the reports are well cataloged, it's can be easy to search and find dysfunctions and solutions, or to know when the problem have been fixed (or not).</div><div><br></div><div>A forum can be considerate as a place to share experience between the users. This is another story, where typically, the team do not interact as well.</div><div><br></div><div>So for me, a Forum is a plus, not a replacement of ML.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div><br></div><div>Gilles Caulier</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-28 13:16 GMT+01:00 Michael Gerdau <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mgd@qata.de" target="_blank">mgd@qata.de</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> Since you guys are continuing the discussion here about mailing lists<br>
> vs. forum, I will let slide the accusation that I've hijacked the<br>
> thread, and answer here.<br>
<br>
Fair enough in my book :)<br>
<br>
> There are TONS of bad "forums" out there. Let's not talk about "a<br>
> forum".<br>
<br>
Here we are in perfect agreement...<br>
<br>
> I'm talking specifically about Discourse, which is developed by<br>
> the same team who has developed StackOverflow. Discourse has excellent<br>
> responsive UX on smartphones, and you only type your password once and<br>
> stay logged in - I don't get this misconception that you need to log in<br>
> and out all the time that someone else complained about.<br>
<br>
[stuff about additional benefits of Discourse deleted]<br>
<br>
...but we only marginally agree w/r to the virtues of Discourse.<br>
<br>
<private opinion><br>
<br>
To phrase it positively:<br>
Discourse seems to be "as good as it can get" as forums go. In terms of<br>
useability it still falls short by a considerable amount when compared<br>
to a ML.<br>
<br>
Some time ago quite a few german Freifunk communities moved from ML to<br>
Discourse for exactly the reasons you stated (and possibly some more).<br>
Having followed those communities for some time I tried to follow suite.<br>
To cut a long story short, I'm no longer following that community.<br>
<br>
In my book even the mailing capabilities of Discourse aren't remotely<br>
close to what an ML offers.<br>
<br>
</private opinion><br>
<br>
> but guess<br>
> what: on a mailing list, the concept of linking to a different thread<br>
> does not even exist! What am I supposed to do, dump the other thread to<br>
> a text file and attach it?<br>
<br>
No. When you have to do that, either add a link from the archive<br>
(readily available once you get used to using it) or (IMO the better<br>
choice) start a new Thread with a (combined) new topic.<br>
<br>
> E-Mail has, for me, huge advantages:-<br>
><br>
> It comes to me, I don't have to open my browser and log in the<br>
> forum. I'm on 60 or so E-Mail lists, if these were all forums I'd<br>
> be spending all my time logging in and out.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Why would you need to log out?<br>
<br>
Because on my mobile I don't want constant refresh of the connection?<br>
Because I don't want connection kept alive that I'm not actively using?<br>
Because I want to save on all sorts of spreading my data?<br>
<br>
This are just 3 trivial reasons. I can easily add more :)<br>
<br>
> I can use the editor that *I* want to use to create and edit<br>
> posts, I use the same editor everywhere and don't have to remember<br>
> different commands for different lists.<br>
><br>
><br>
> I'm sorry, but what fancy editing features (or commands?) do you use<br>
> with this mailing list? Does it even support any formatting? What if you<br>
> wanted to attach a screenshot?<br>
<br>
It is about freedom of choice. You must not want that for yourself.<br>
Allow others to have that requirement.<br>
<br>
> With the mail client I use the messages are properly threaded.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Can you share a link from one thread to another?<br>
<br>
Yes (see above).<br>
<br>
> Can the community contribute to content curation by starring/liking posts?<br>
<br>
No. This is a concept not used with ML.<br>
<br>
<private opinion><br>
I don't want this starring/liking posts feature, never used it in a forum.<br>
</private opinion><br>
<br>
> Can a post be edited collaboratively so it becomes a wiki article to<br>
> up-to-date, authoritative content?<br>
<br>
Again different concept.<br>
<br>
<private opinion><br>
I prefer to have a seperate Wiki instead of a "one-size-fits-all"<br>
approach, but others may differ.<br>
</private opinion><br>
<br>
> Can you summarize a long topic? (example<br>
> <<a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/install-a-plugin/19157" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://meta.discourse.org/t/<wbr>install-a-plugin/19157</a>>)<br>
<br>
Yes, but it is done slightly differently.<br>
<br>
> What happens if you want to access a discussion from somewhere else than<br>
> your particular mail client? Or point someone to a discussion?<br>
<br>
Use the archive.<br>
<br>
> How about new people who join and don't have any existing discussions?<br>
> And don't tell me they'll bother downloading the archives - 99% won't.<br>
<br>
And they shouldn't. The archive is not for consuming, but for looking<br>
things up. Essentially the same as you do when you search in a forum.<br>
Maybe it is me but I don't see a fundamental difference here.<br>
<br>
> And I could go on an on but those who are resistant to change, are going<br>
> to be resistant to change, no matter my rational arguments.<br>
<br>
That is the first of your statements that I find seriously problematic.<br>
<br>
To me this sounds as if you a ridiculing opinions that differ from yours<br>
by claiming you are right by definition and whoever disagrees is wrong<br>
by definition. If I got that wrong I apologize.<br>
<br>
If I got it right I strongly ask you to refrain from such rants.<br>
<br>
In my book (and I wrote this in the very first answer in this thread)<br>
the question ML vs Forum has lots to do with personal taste, preferences<br>
and working style and less with technological superiority.<br>
<br>
And (I repeat myself) this is the stuff religious wars are made of.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
Michael Gerdau email: <a href="mailto:mgd@qata.de">mgd@qata.de</a><br>
GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>