<div dir="ltr">I don't know about grouping. Each time I have tried to use DK as my management software I quit because I can't update the thumbnails... <div><br></div><div>If you develop your edits as JPEG because you have several of them, how do you later continue developing one of them because you want to do something else from that point? If you modify the history to do a completely different edit, you lose the other. If you duplicate in DT your image, you cant see both files in DK. If you duplicate the whole raw file so you can see it in DK, you don't know which one is each because thumbnails are outdated and don't represent what the editor has done with the raw file. </div><div><br></div><div>That's why I want a way to update thumbnails and previews with the current editing history...</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-08 2:20 GMT+01:00 HaJo Schatz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hajo@hajo.net" target="_blank">hajo@hajo.net</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Just saw this now and have been far far away from DK & DT for a long time, so sorry if I speak outdated:</div><div><br></div><div>I tried to combine both for my workflow before, with limited success. What I wished for back then was a proper solution in DK for grouping. I wouldn't mind developing my edits into JPEGs (actually want to, since I may have multiple edits as someone said earlier). In the past DK didn't group them well, that's where I had issues. If grouping is working well now I think the preview topic is not really a serious shortcoming, no?</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 at 01:27, Juan Jose Casafranca <<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Could you look if there is anyway to ask darktable for an image through DBus? The image should be returned without been saved in disk. <div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">(As a char* for example). </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Right now I'm trying to understand how digikam asks for the thumbnails and for the preview images so I can ask for them when it's necessary. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2017-01-07 18:20 GMT+01:00 Andrey Goreev <span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:aegoreev@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">aegoreev@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">I agree 100%. I am willing to help if needed </div><span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div id="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376composer_signature" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.</div></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></span><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">-------- Original message --------</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">From: Juan Jose Casafranca <<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>> </div></span><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275h5 m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Date: 2017-01-07 9:30 AM (GMT-07:00) </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">To: digiKam - Home Manage your photographs as a professional with the power of open source <<a href="mailto:digikam-users@kde.org" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">digikam-users@kde.org</a>> </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Subject: Re: Digikam raw files and darktable </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></div></div></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275h5 m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Yes, I don't want digikam developers to do this. I understand that they have their own roadmap. Opensource strength is the possibility for any user to propose changes and implement them if they know how to do it :-)</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div>I'm already coding a kind of very stupid version of what I want, just to play around with it and see how things can be done. But I must say that it looks pretty simple. This first toy code is just calling darktable-cli, saving an image to disk and loading it as a thubnail. Its just to see how things could be done afterwards :-)<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">I also think the DBus option is the best one, although it's only Linux available so I will have a look at it</div></div><div class="gmail_extra m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2017-01-07 17:25 GMT+01:00 Andrey Goreev <span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:aegoreev@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">aegoreev@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">We definitely don't want digikam developers to do any extra work for that. They have their roadmap and want to stay on it. What we want from them is to tell us how could importing thumbnails from darktable to digikam be done with absolute minimal changes in the digikam code. Am I correct ?</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Also, if the Linux only solution (DBus) is the simplest solution I think we should stick to it. I am actually a windows user and there is no darktable version for Windows so I created a designated virtual machine (ubuntu studio) and do all DAM and photo / video processing there. The pictures folder can be accessed from both Windows and Linux so there is nothing that needs to be done twice. Any changes can be seen in any OS.</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div id="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376m_-8484426261789163637composer_signature" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.</div></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">-------- Original message --------</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">From: Juan Jose Casafranca <<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>> </div></span><span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Date: 2017-01-07 8:59 AM (GMT-07:00) </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">To: digiKam - Home Manage your photographs as a professional with the power of open source <<a href="mailto:digikam-users@kde.org" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">digikam-users@kde.org</a>> </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Subject: Re: Digikam raw files and darktable </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></span></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376h5 m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_extra m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2017-01-07 16:22 GMT+01:00 Gilles Caulier <span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:caulier.gilles@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">caulier.gilles@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_extra m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376m_-8484426261789163637h5 m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2017-01-07 15:41 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376m_-8484426261789163637m_2970993905226860942gmail-HOEnZb m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376m_-8484426261789163637m_2970993905226860942gmail-h5 m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:25:43 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> 2017-01-07 15:22 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:14:09 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > 2017-01-07 15:08 GMT+01:00 Juan Jose Casafranca <<a href="mailto:jjcasmar@gmail.com" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" target="_blank">jjcasmar@gmail.com</a>>:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > On sábado, 7 de enero de 2017 15:03:38 (CET) Gilles Caulier wrote:<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > As i explain before, ALL thumbnails generated by digiKam are stored<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > in a<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > dedicated database (sqlite or Mysql).<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > The thumbnails are stored using wavelets compression format PGF to<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > optimize<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > space. In older DK version (3 for ex), we use FreeDesktop way with<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > PNG<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > which explode storage for huge collection and take a while to store<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > thumbnails files. Also FreeDesktop recommendations is only limited<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > to<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > 256x256, which is not enough for Hdpi screen (digiKam can store<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > 512x512<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > and<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > > perhaps more in the future with 8K screen).<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > Okay. But there is no need to change anything in DK for storing<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > thumbnails.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > The only thing needed is to change the way thumbnails are generated<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > and<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > updated for raw files.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > Simply, when DK finds a new raw file, instead of loading the embedded<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > jpg<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > file,<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > simply call the raw processor and generate the new file. And when the<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > thumbnail<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > > is dirty (as I explained before), regenerate the thumbnail.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > But this is already the case. We use already a raw decoder named libraw<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > to<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > process RAW thumbnails. We will not using another one... Stop to puzzle<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > the<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > code<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > > Gilles Caulier<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> ><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > So you are telling me that if we want to process a raw file and manage a<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > library with DK, we have to stay with the simply DK raw processor instead<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > of<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > using a much more powerful one like darktable? Do you really think that<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > people<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> > out there use the DK raw processor to process their images?<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> But digiKam is not DarkTable. The way to mix both cannot be done. This is<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> 2 different applications, one written in Qt other one in GTK...<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> The goal currently in DK is to stabilize the code, reduce dependencies,<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> improve port to non Linux. We have plenty of jobs to do, DarkTable is not a<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> priority for the moment.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>> Gilles Caulier<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br></div></div>I know that they are two different apps. I dont understand why GTK and Qt is<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>even a question here. I'm not saying to add DT as a depency for DK, just let<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>the user decide which raw processor uses.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></blockquote><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></div></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">But Raw processor from DT is not the same than DK as i know. Changing Raw processor in digiKam by DT one is as to add DT dependencies to DK. No way here...</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">I'm not asking to change the raw processor. Just asking to allow the user which raw processor wants to use. If the user selects to use DT, simply make him enter the DT executable which will be called when the raw file must be processed. No dependency needed.</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_extra m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><span class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><br><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>As I said, I can try to develop this by myself, I'm not asking any dedicated<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>DK developer to do it... What I only need is a little guideline on how the<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>thumbnails are generated, how they are stored in the database and some other<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br><br>stuff for letting the user choose which processor wants to choose.<br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></blockquote><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></span><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2 possibilities :</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">1/ use DBus to ping digiKam core about thumbnails changed externally. Only Linux solution. </div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">2/ use XMP sidecar to store a local path to new thumbnails processed into DT XMP namespace. I don't like this too much by at least it store the minimum to XMP.</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">3/ store wavelets compressed preview in XMP sidecar to Iptc.Application2.Preview</div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">4/ use a thumbnail sidecar file near RAW file as .thumb. I see this solution already used under Windows, but i don't remember which application exactly. I know that Canon camera do it also. It's a simple JPEG file with metadata This way will duplicata data of course.</div><span class="m_6633240959668575468m_8472177046091787275m_7921979482391696376m_-8484426261789163637HOEnZb m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><font color="#888888" class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><div class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg">Gilles Caulier</div></font></span></div></div></div><br><br></blockquote></div><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div></div></div></div><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><br><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class="m_6633240959668575468gmail_msg"></div><br><br></blockquote></div></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>